Sidemount- Specialty or the new normal?

[Kelly Jessop]

Does Ginnie asks for proof of sidemount training as they do for doubles?

No. Sidemount training has been offered as a course for many years,and has been understood to be an advanced specialty in the past. Someone diving at Ginnie has to use their best judgement about their limitations related to their training. Can someone pull out their VISA card,buy a sidemount set up,and dive Ginnie-yes. Can that same person go do some of the technical type sidemount passages that exist in that cave safely? NO! The other consideration is we are seeing some sidemount passages getting beat up because of the lack of training/experience with this configuration. People are buying sidemount configurations,and feel they are ready to see some new sites,but square pegs aren't fitting round holes,and the understanding on how to traverse these passages with minimal impact isn't understood.

Another consideration,since this thread originally referenced the cave mentor program. As a cave mentor if the person you are mentoring is diving sidemount and they are not certified,and you give sidemount advice,are you training at this point,and exceeding the level of your cert (read increase your liability)?

[cerich]

I wont disagree that tight and low restrictions require training in addition to standard cave training, but is that SM training or is it tight low restriction training? Of course tight and low pretty much mandates SM but no Mount is also applicable in these cases.

I am talking as a common configuration in cave diving. Is SM a specialty or just a valid gear configuration for cave diving in general? Thus why i am saying not a specialty in this regard.

Possibly we should look at redefining the Low and tight specialty to a better name than sidemount? Old school divers are going to think of SM as low and tight equipment configuration and techniques, new school...not so much. It's just where you put the cylinders to them...

[skip]

Several years ago I suggested that there be a more technical cave diving specialization that went beyond the "tourist" caves of Florida. I was told by instructors on the BoD of both CDS and NACD that cave diving is technical and no other "specializations" or "more techie" is needed or wanted. My thought at the time was exploration and part of it was sidemount. We were building our own sidemount harnesses to explore local caves. There were no commercial harnesses in production and as far as I knew little or no interest. Sounds like a similar idea proposed here in which side mount is part of it, but exploration, survey, and no-mount passages are part of the training. Rather than a sidemount speciality course, perhaps a sidemount cave exploration course. or a cave exploration course in which side and no- mount are included/required.

skip

[corvettejoe]

I have never dove backmount doubles and never really want to. Should the need arise I would like to do some training with it (great lakes wreck dives some day, etc).

I have a bad back and bad knees and prefer the ease of gearing up in sidemount. I also like the freedom sidemount offers you in the water with a more streamlined profile (less drag) and the ability to bend my back if needed.

I also like that both my tanks are completely separate from each other, no worries about which tank blew up, isolation valve, etc. I have two completely separate gas sources there for me to use right in my face where I can see whats going on if something happens. There's no reaching behind my back ever..its just right there under my arms.

The amount of my buddies I've trained up with and hang out with, nearly all of them have been sidemount from the beginning as well (for doubles).

I think it should be just as "standard" as back mounted doubles and just offered as a choice of what you want to do in your tech classes when you come to that point in your training.

I am just finishing Cave 2 myself, and as a sidemount diver, I CAN fit into a lot of smaller places and go places that my back mounted friends can't, even without removing my gear or tearing up the cave. Would I remove any of my gear to fit into some tiny crawl space? I don't feel comfortable with doing something like that yet and would seek more training/mentoring before I had the need to do this. I feel myself that there is PLENTY to see for any new cave diver without the need to do this...and by the time I've seen everything there is to see, I should hope that I would have the experience necessary to be able to do gear removals through tight spots should I choose to do that. But even if I didn't feel that way... I just simply wouldn't do that.

This take COMMON SENSE and WILL POWER. Common sense says you DON'T HAVE to go through that tight spot if you aren't properly trained or experienced in doing so. Will power says...go dive some other part of the cave, go dive another cave you haven't visited before. There are lots of side passages and new things to see off the gold line you are perfectly able to see without having to cram into some tight spot and destroy the cave.

I'm sorry... are we allowed to use logic and reason on this forum? LOL

[kwinter]

How do you instructors handle the situation of a diver who is experienced and comfortable with sidemount configuration in open water (yes, it happens) who now wants to do cave training? Years ago when it was virtually unknow there was a guy who only did sidemount because of a back injury. He wanted to do cavern/intro training with me, but the instructor said no way. It was backmount singles or doubles only.

Would this still be the case today? How about cave1? How about initial open water training in sidemount? Just how far do we go in saying sidemount is or is not an advanced skill set?

[Kelly Jessop]

I am talking as a common configuration in cave diving. Is SM a specialty or just a valid gear configuration for cave diving in general? Thus why i am saying not a specialty in this regard.

...

I think in this case very specific nomenclature I defined is needed. Sidemount configuration versus sidemounting. Most of the people you see are diving sidemount configuration but are not sidemounting or sidemounters. Hence there should be sidemount configuration training,and sidemount training,but both are different in many regards. One is fairly basic,the other is an advanced cave diving activity.

I did the Richard Petty Driving Experience once. I drove a car with a lot of horsepower. Because of this I can say I drove a race car,but I can't call my self a race car driver. Poor analogy perhaps,but hopefully illustrates what I am saying.

[sskasser]

How do you instructors handle the situation of a diver who is experienced and comfortable with sidemount configuration in open water (yes, it happens) who now wants to do cave training? Years ago when it was virtually unknow there was a guy who only did sidemount because of a back injury. He wanted to do cavern/intro training with me, but the instructor said no way. It was backmount singles or doubles only.

Would this still be the case today? How about cave1? How about initial open water training in sidemount? Just how far do we go in saying sidemount is or is not an advanced skill set?

I teach in either configuration. The rules are the same. The diver is competent in his/her chosen technical configuration before we go into the overhead environment, to include virtual overheads. I don't care what you dive, I just care that you know what you're doing in your configuration.

[navycaver]

You can do O/W training in sidemount.
PADI is adding it as an option for various levels of training.
I believe other agencies are also.

I believe ED is offering sidemount for O/W training. I could be mistaken but i think that is what he said recently.

How do you instructors handle the situation of a diver who is experienced and comfortable with sidemount configuration in open water (yes, it happens) who now wants to do cave training? Years ago when it was virtually unknow there was a guy who only did sidemount because of a back injury. He wanted to do cavern/intro training with me, but the instructor said no way. It was backmount singles or doubles only.

Would this still be the case today? How about cave1? How about initial open water training in sidemount? Just how far do we go in saying sidemount is or is not an advanced skill set?

[navycaver]

Corvettejoe makes some good points.
I converted to sidemount after my buddy had a major illness and was out of the water for a year.
I had dove solo previous to this, but as I found myself doing more and more solo, I Felt better with the redundant air source that was easy to reach.
It just feels better when diving doubles and stages.
I do dive some tight stuff that requires removing a tank, but I got formal training prior to attempting these dives.

I now dive, and teach overhead exclusively in sidemount. I do not think I will ever dive backmount again.

I have never dove backmount in doubles and never really want to. Should the need arise I would like to do some training with it (great lakes wreck dives some day, etc).

I have a bad back and bad knees and prefer the ease of gearing up in sidemount. I also like the freedom sidemount offers you in the water with a more streamlined profile (less drag) and the ability to bend my back if needed.

I also like that both my tanks are completely separate from each other, no worries about which tank blew up, isolation valve, etc. I have two completely separate gas sources there for me to use right in my face where I can see whats going on if something happens. There's no reaching behind my back ever..its just right there under my arms.

The amount of my buddies I've trained up with and hang out with, nearly all of them have been sidemount from the beginning as well (for doubles).

I think it should be just as "standard" as back mounted doubles and just offered as a choice of what you want to do in your tech classes when you come to that point in your training.

I am just finishing Cave 2 myself, and as a sidemount diver, I CAN fit into a lot of smaller places and go places that my back mounted friends can't, even without removing my gear or tearing up the cave. Would I remove any of my gear to fit into some tiny crawl space? I don't feel comfortable with doing something like that yet and would seek more training/mentoring before I had the need to do this. I feel myself that there is PLENTY to see for any new cave diver without the need to do this...and by the time I've seen everything there is to see, I should hope that I would have the experience necessary to be able to do gear removals through tight spots should I choose to do that. But even if I didn't feel that way... I just simply wouldn't do that.

This take COMMON SENSE and WILL POWER. Common sense says you DON'T HAVE to go through that tight spot if you aren't properly trained or experienced in doing so. Will power says...go dive some other part of the cave, go dive another cave you haven't visited before. There are lots of side passages and new things to see off the gold line you are perfectly able to see without having to cram into some tight spot and destroy the cave.

I'm sorry... are we allowed to use logic and reason on this forum? LOL

Kelly put it well, dive in sidemount configuration yes. But get training or a lot of mentoring prior to penetrating passage that requires sidemounting.

[cerich]

I am just finishing Cave 2 myself, and as a sidemount diver,

curious what agency are you finishing Cave 2 thru in sidemount?