More on the concept of leaving the agency days behind the CDS

[CGriffing]

You are way too defensive.

[cerich]

I addressed your points. Maybe you didn't like that my response was "not to your liking"...thus your post.

Or we can NOT go down the normal BS internet road and have a discussion that matters and not personalize it.

You are apparently an cave instructor for 4 different organizations. I teach for one. I am curious if the CDS, which you are an instructor for is the "gold standard", why teach the others? What do they offer that CDS can not? I know I am happy with the NAUI cave program and don't feel a need to offer any other agency. I would however happily seek accreditation if it were available.

That would be very germane to this conversation instead of allegations of attacks based on other conversations by other people sometime in the past on some Internet site.

You are way too defensive.

[CGriffing]

You are too defensive and you presume too much. I knew your third option was a joke, and had the thread been to your liking, then it would not have necessitated a second thread
titled 'More on. . . '

My post was not an attack on you, so there is no need to be snippy or presume the reasoning behind my posts. Feel free to call me and discuss so you don't take this down the normal internet BS road.

[cerich]

the only reason for the more on thread was because posters kept posting that the agencies would need to be onboard. The second thread was because I wanted it to be more clear. I felt that maybe they weren't reading thru the other thread so a new one may be better. No other rason and it really wasn't because of the results of the poll. As I stated I got what I hoped for from the poll in fact. Discussion.

You are too defensive and you presume too much. I knew your third option was a joke, and had the thread been to your liking, then it would not have necessitated a second thread
titled 'More on. . . '

My post was not an attack on you, so there is no need to be snippy or presume the reasoning behind my posts. Feel free to call me and discuss so you don't take this down the normal internet BS road.

[CGriffing]

"...I am happy with the NAUI cave program and don't feel a need to offer any other agency. I would however happily seek accreditation if it were available.

Then why aren't you seeking accreditation for NAUI instead of an organization for which you are not an instructor? And if you are, then where are those threads?

[cerich]

I am not seeking accreditation for ANY AGENCY. I am looking at there being a voluntary accreditation that individual instructors could submit themselves to to separate the "wheat from the chaff" as it were. I stated that I like the NAUI Cave program, are there NAUI Cave Instructors doing a crappy job? I am gonna have to say yes. When I have potential students or other divers who have done a NAUI Cave 1 saying they can do/have done a NAUI Cave 1 in 3 days with XX NAUI Instructor and I know that doing it in 5 is near impossible then really it isn't rocket science to figure it out. So, I could report i to NAUI and get told, "get proof they have actually taught a class in 3 days", on the few occasions I have been told by students their class was 3 days, they don't want to get their instructor in trouble... so the process continues.

So would I as a NAUI Instructor like to have something that shows potential students that not only do I teach a course with high standards (NAUI) but have also voluntarily submitted myself to an even higher level of professional commitment and vetting by a peer group of respected instructors? Heck yes.

In y discussions with other Instructors from other agencies, this is not a agency specific problem, it's a community problem. We don't have a group that represents the community in it's entity. We have factions or some newer groups (ASA, NFSA) with a narrow and specific focus. This is also not simply a N Florida issue, it extends on a international scale.

I think the CDS can be that organization, but not when it is a competing cave training agency.

Then why aren't you seeking accreditation for NAUI instead of an organization for which you are not an instructor? And if you are, then where are those threads?

[CGriffing]

What evidence do you offer that accreditation, be it from the CDS or any other organization, will have the effect you desire?

[cerich]

In other fields accreditation has proven to be a valuable tool. That my gut and others that I respect (in fairness others that I also respect don't).

How come you think it won't work or isn't a good idea?

What evidence do you offer that accreditation, be it from the CDS or any other organization, will have the effect you desire?

[CGriffing]

So, you have no evidence that it will definitely work in this industry.

I don't think it will work, as all you effectively have is an idea, and not a presentable solution. You present no evidence to support that having cave training accreditation will improve anything.

[cerich]

Thanks for the candor, unfortunately you have no proof it won't. We are at a impasse. I appreciate that you feel strongly and spent the time to debate it.

So, you have no evidence that it will definitely work in this industry.

I don't think it will work, as all you effectively have is an idea, and not a presentable solution. You present no evidence to support that having cave training accreditation will improve anything.