More on the concept of leaving the agency days behind the CDS

[kotik]

Looks like a repeat of the NACD story

I'm afraid I don't understand the reference here.

[bluedjango1]

Can somebody post the CDS standards of training cave divers along with the by-law mission statement in order for this thread to be discussed properly? Otherwise this thread is just a mysterious smoke and windows session of what is right and wrong with the world of cave diving hypocrisy...

[TracyN]

Welcome to this exciting adventure of "As The Silt Stirs". Stay tuned for the next episode as it is guranteed to bring about gun slinging, trash talking, banjo playing cave diving excitement

[MDiver429]

//www.nsscds.org/OrganizationDocuments

Follow link to bylaws

[FW]

Can somebody post the CDS standards of training cave divers along with the by-law mission statement in order for this thread to be discussed properly? Otherwise this thread is just a mysterious smoke and windows session of what is right and wrong with the world of cave diving hypocrisy...

The counsel associated with the instructor insurance company recommended not to publish the training standards. Besides, anyone can look at the standards. All they have to do is ask an instructor to show them, just not give out any copy, paper, or electronic. Perhaps the reason should be revisited.

[cerich]

Can somebody post the CDS standards of training cave divers along with the by-law mission statement in order for this thread to be discussed properly? Otherwise this thread is just a mysterious smoke and windows session of what is right and wrong with the world of cave diving hypocrisy...

Can do some of that but not all...

Cave Diving Section
of the
National Speleological Society, Inc.
BYLAWS
Page 1 of 10
Article I: Purpose and Powers of the Corporation.
The Cave Diving Section of the National Speleological Society, Inc. (“NSS-CDS”) possesses and may exercise all lawful corporate powers necessary and convenient for promoting the missions, purposes, goals and objectives of the National Speleological Society, Inc. (“NSS”), including public education, the interests of its members in conservation, exploration and scientific investigation of underwater caves, and the education of divers for increased awareness, safety and skill in cave diving.

and from elsewhere..

Cave Diving Section
of the
National Speleological Society, Inc.
CONSTITUTION
Page 1 of 1
ARTICLE I:
The name of this organization shall be the Cave Diving Section of the National Speleological Society, Inc. (hereafter referred to as NSS-CDS).
ARTICLE II:
The purpose of the organization shall be the same as that of the National Speleological Society (hereafter referred to as NSS), with the additional purpose of organizing NSS members who are interested in cave diving, so that they may better promote the objectives of the NSS. These objectives include 1) promotion of the conservation, exploration, and study of underwater caves; and 2) education for increased awareness, safety, and skill in cave diving.

and the NSS states their mission statement as


Mission Statement:
The National Speleological Society (NSS) is a non-profit membership organization dedicated to the scientific study of caves and karst; protecting caves and their natural contents through conservation, ownership, stewardship, and public education; and promoting responsible cave exploration and fellowship
among those interested in caves.

can't find certification anywhere in all that....

[Greenwood_60]

Certification ≠ Training.

Certify
Verb
1. Attest or confirm in a formal statement.
2. Officially recognize (someone or something) as possessing certain qualifications or meeting certain standards.

Train
Verb
1. Teach (a person or animal) a particular skill or type of behavior through practice and instruction over a period of time.

[cerich]

Certification ≠ Training.

not disagreeing with you but the NSS and CDS in this context are actually are focused on Education, not training or certification. Obviously training and certification can fall under education and is fine but they are not all mutually exclusive and there is no structural need for the CDS to offer certification.

[JerseyJersey]

the Constitution states

ARTICLE II:
The purpose of the organization shall be the same as that of the National Speleological Society (hereafter referred to as NSS), with the additional purpose of organizing NSS members who are interested in cave diving, so that they may better promote the objectives of the NSS. These objectives include 1) promotion of the conservation, exploration, and study of underwater caves; and 2) education for increased awareness, safety, and skill in cave diving.

If we take all the wording literally we are not about entering caves or cave diving. Just education about cave diving and cave diving skills.

Like tthe US Constitution, this is a base from which we work. the membership I would think is very much in favor of the inclusion of cave diving in what we do and and from the poll teaching cave diving skills.

There is no specific "need" for cave diving, diving in caves we own, or diving in caves we support. There is no "need" for a social aspect to the organization. But without them the interest, participation and support of members would be less and different. The membership wants to dive, dive safely and conserve and protect these sites so that they can be enjoyed.

We may not all agree on everything the organization does, but there should be something for everyone within what the organization does. I belong to it for those interests and dont deny others theirs. I think an organization without participation is simply a donation of money, not a membership.

[Greenwood_60]

not disagreeing with you but the NSS and CDS in this context are actually are focused on Education, not training or certification. Obviously training and certification can fall under education and is fine but they are not all mutually exclusive and there is no structural need for the CDS to offer certification.

I agree with you. All too often training and certification are confused. Certification is not education, but a verification of education and competency. If the CDS gets out of certification of divers, there is no reason they have to also get out of training. I'd like to see training expanded with CDS certified mentors. Specifically for those who enjoy training but aren't interested in making a buck doing it.