Poll- Do you agree with the CDS getting out of the C- Card business?

[cerich]

I'm honestly finding it funny as heck that I keep on getting accused of being adversarial and chasing people away. I put forward my position and thoughts, I've tried to reasonably explain why I feel the way I do and also answer any questions or address misconceptions that were brought up. I didn't attack anybody, never said the CDS instructors were doing a poor job, or the new or even the old board were doing a bad job. You used the word "might":, that implies you aren't sure my intentions here aren't just to inflict harm? Let's go with that awhile...why would I? Is it a good business plan for me to piss of instructors who are gonna tell their students my gear is crap?... Not so much. Is it so I can hurt their business and get to teach their students? I hope not, i don't have time for that, I have a 6 year old business and a 6 year old daughter, i spend too much time away already and don't teach for a living.

Maybe my agenda is really to try and help make the CDS a stronger organization?

See my post where I said this type of approach is what keeps people from being active. Who on earth would want to take part or speak up for something when the cerich's of the world might be ready to pounce.

Look his goals might truly be benevolent and peaceful, but if he's coming off like a horses rear end (and he is) then his goals are not being met. Whether he's trying to or not, he's chasing people.

[CGriffing]

You write this:

I didn't attack anybody, never said the CDS instructors were doing a poor job, or the new or even the old board were doing a bad job.

Yet previously, you wrote this:

Hmmm, I'm surprised. I would have thought you wanted to see the CDS remain a viable training agency and association.... That's quite sad as the other poll asking what agency certified shows that the CDS is well behind the curve with 40 years of existence compared to TDI only being active in cave for maybe 5-6 years.....

IMHO you're taking delight in watching the CDS become irrelevant and not be proactive to survive.

So, if it isn't the CDS instructors, the new board or the old board, who then, Chris, is going to cause the CDS to become irrelevant?

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Actually, I took it to mean that the TDI has more lenient instructors willing to push through students who probably wouldn't have gotten a card with a real cave diving agency. Hmm, interesting perspective you have I guess.

How many of those TDI instructors also teach for a non-profit cave agency? I know for a fact that mine did.

[cerich]

You really see an attack in the second thing I wrote that you quoted?

Why are you looking for blame when it's not a blame game? I'm not blaming anybody. The CDS has drifted away from its heritage, for some time it worked, now things have changed and a drift back to what the CDS was formed to be would be a good thing IMHO. Even when we had dinner the night of the conference, I found it interesting that people with a long history with the CDS were referring to it as a training agency. it isn't.

You write this:



Yet previously, you wrote this:



So, if it isn't the CDS instructors, the new board or the old board, who then, Chris is going to cause the CDS to become irrelevant?

[CGriffing]

Not saying it was an attack. However, it would only seem as you are saying that someone has been, is, or will do something or simply allow something to happen to cause the CDS to become irrelevant, yet you don't feel that the instructors, past or present board is doing a bad job. How can you have it both ways, Chris?

[cerich]

Not saying it was an attack. However, it would only seem as you are saying that someone has been, is, or will do something or simply allow something to happen to cause the CDS to become irrelevant, yet you don't feel that the instructors, past or present board is doing a bad job. How can you have it both ways, Chris?

Because I think while the CDS has been doing what they have done for years the dive industry changed, they (dive agencies) look at cave diving as just another extension of their technical diving, nothing less, nothing more. The CDS has a great opportunity here, or they will continue to slide to not being relevant, not because of any BLAME but because quite simply the dive agencies are better dive training marketing agencies than the CDS. Take a Recreational OW Instructor Trainer with a Full cave card, let him take a less than a week(if more than a weekend) Cave Instructor program from a single Cave Instructor Trainer....now once he certifies 25 cave divers...he is also a Cave Instructor Trainer. Compare that with the other thread what it takes to make CDS Instructors...it's vastly different and it obvious which program is making the most instructors. We can all bury our head in the clay bank (don't worry it's really obvious that clay banks are there to rest your knees in these days, a head imprint is no problem) and pretend it isn't a issue but in our hearts most of us know it is...

[CGriffing]

Your proposed solution does not solve the dilemma you mention. The members voted in new board members they felt could lead the CDS. Give the new board the respect they deserve so that they can fulfill their duties and the hopes of the members. I don't recall you having been elected by the members for anything.

[cerich]

I don't recall saying I was. So this is the latest tack you're going to take to try and make this all go away? Awesome. I'm amazed you consider a person expressing his view and suggesting ideas as not giving the board the "respect they deserve". They were elected in a vote that expresses confidence in their ability and while I certainly have great respect for most of them as people and professionally,as newly elected BOD members the actions they take or conversely don't take will determine the respect they earn or lose as BOD members. It isn't automatic.

If you feel that what I am doing is so disruptive to the CDS I direct you to the bylaws, D2 to be exact. That would be entertaining.

By the way, while it was heralded by many who expressed joy at the election results, the fact remains that the majority of members weren't even impressed, engaged or care enough to vote.

regarding the training dilemma I mentioned... it's only part of the peoblem but th accreditation process becomes both a form of quality assurance and also a pretty effective peer pressure within the cave instructor ranks of all agencies. I'm pretty sure for every cave instructor that resents, fears, dismisses it there will be one that steps up to the challenge.

Your proposed solution does not solve the dilemma you mention. The members voted in new board members they felt could lead the CDS. Give the new board the respect they deserve so that they can fulfill their duties and the hopes of the members. I don't recall you having been elected by the members for anything.

[CGriffing]

Again, you are too defensive:

If you feel that what I am doing is so disruptive to the CDS I direct you to the bylaws, D2 to be exact. That would be entertaining.

The thought of taking that kind of action against you never even crossed my mind. I think you are reading emotion into my posts that isn't there.

By giving them the respect they deserve, I am saying that they have only just recently been elected; they're just getting started. Superlyte27's post says it very well:

You mean the present course of letting the new management do their thing with new ideas, possibly new direction, renewed focus, renewed strength and renewed passion? Or, you'd really like to turn everything upside down and HOPE that the CDS survives. Dude, the risk is too big. Let the system work. There's tons of new people in place, with great ideas and great ambition.

[cerich]

darn, as I stated it would have been entertaining.....

demanding I give the board respect implies I am not, it's just another tack you have taken to discredit and derail the conversation of getting the cds out of the c card game. I applaud your passion, this would be a good time to tell me I am too defensive again.

Again, you are too defensive:



The thought of taking that kind of action against you never even crossed my mind. I think you are reading emotion into my posts that isn't there.

By giving them the respect they deserve, I am saying that they have only just recently been elected; they're just getting started. Superlyte27's post says it very well: