Poll- Do you agree with the CDS getting out of the C- Card business?

[allen]

In response to Jont's suggestion that vacation cave divers should quit the sport: I don't think we are the problem. Most of us know and respect our limits. I suspect that the every other weekend divers are more likely to exceed thier limits. It took me 3 years to reach full cave diver status, but I respected my limitations, had fun, and learned a lot along the way. Full cave doesn't mean I can do everything. It means I know what I can and can't do. I still have a lot to learn. I can do short circuits (Nicholson, Taj, Cuzan Na). Someday I'll feel up to doing the Godzilla Circuit and the Expressway Circuit, but I'm in no hurry. SuperBugMan is right: Florida has over a hundred diveable caves, but I consider most of them off limits. I am a tourist, and I am still learning my way around the odd recesses of the tourist caves. I lack the training for Eagle's Nest or Jug Hole, and I respect that limitation. I never will be able to do Royal Spring or Alachua Sink, and I don't care. While I am on this rant, I will put in a plea for people who are happy staying Intro and people who would be happy to stay Apprentice if they could. Some people are quite happy just paddling up to Olsen Sink or the Breakdown Room. Some people's ambition ends at the Bone Room or the Godzilla Room; there shouldn't be anything wrong with that.

[Jont]

In response to Jont's suggestion that vacation cave divers should quit the sport: I don't think we are the problem. Most of us know and respect our limits. I suspect that the every other weekend divers are more likely to exceed thier limits. It took me 3 years to reach full cave diver status, but I respected my limitations, had fun, and learned a lot along the way. Full cave doesn't mean I can do everything. It means I know what I can and can't do. I still have a lot to learn. I can do short circuits (Nicholson, Taj, Cuzan Na). Someday I'll feel up to doing the Godzilla Circuit and the Expressway Circuit, but I'm in no hurry. SuperBugMan is right: Florida has over a hundred diveable caves, but I consider most of them off limits. I am a tourist, and I am still learning my way around the odd recesses of the tourist caves. I lack the training for Eagle's Nest or Jug Hole, and I respect that limitation. I never will be able to do Royal Spring or Alachua Sink, and I don't care. While I am on this rant, I will put in a plea for people who are happy staying Intro and people who would be happy to stay Apprentice if they could. Some people are quite happy just paddling up to Olsen Sink or the Breakdown Room. Some people's ambition ends at the Bone Room or the Godzilla Room; there shouldn't be anything wrong with that.

Allen: I never suggested that vacation divers should quit...I AM ONE, please re read what I wrote.....LOL, I live in Manhattan, the orly caves we have here are filled with annoying people and trains.

The point I was tying to make is that just because someone has a c-card for 10 years doesn't mean they have 10 years of experience if they dive once per year on vacation.

Quitting isnt in my nature and I would never suggest anyone quits at anything worthwhile, to many people get upset when people make honest mistakes cave diving.

[bletso]

The "Old Boys Club": this makes me laugh because they really dont exist. When any organization is criticized like this it can only mean one of several several things:
1) That person can't or wont pay the fee for membership.
2) That person can't or wont jump through the hoops required for membership
3) That person has a vested interest in competing with that org so they take shots at it.
but usually it means they are just lazy and bitter.

And then;

4) That person doesn't give a toss, doesn't play politics, and suffers those that do poorly.

Good 0ld Boys Clubs, (GOBC), do exist, just look at the competing org. (NACD) Sometimes the cost of membership just isn't worth it, well at least to me. To be fair there are GOBC's that do good, e. g. AMVets, Shriners, etc. Those are just two that pop in my head. I am not a member of either.

[bletso]

The CDS has essentially become a cave diving training agency, with a few other activities that play second fiddle to that.

Some of us would like it to concentrate on (1) and by all means (2), as long as it is education rather than training (i.e. within a commercial relationship between an instructor and a student). The problem now is that the tail is wagging the dog.

Andy

I have to agree here. It has been a long slide to this position though, almost like the growth of a slow cancer. You don't notice it until it's too late.

[bletso]

According to the CDS Constitution

"These objectives include 1) promotion of the conservation, exploration, and study of underwater caves; and 2) education for increased awareness, safety, and skill in cave diving."

Sorry, but I can't figure out multi-quoting.

Just as its parent organization the NSS, number one should be conservation. Education doesn't have to mean an instructor-centric organization

[Jont]

And then;

4) That person doesn't give a toss, doesn't play politics, and suffers those that do poorly.

Good 0ld Boys Clubs, (GOBC), do exist, just look at the competing org. (NACD) Sometimes the cost of membership just isn't worth it, well at least to me. To be fair there are GOBC's that do good, e. g. AMVets, Shriners, etc. Those are just two that pop in my head. I am not a member of either.

Ah nothing you mention is a GOBC, there are rust certain requirements for membership.....no GOBC their.

[Jont]

I have to agree here. It has been a long slide to this position though, almost like the growth of a slow cancer. You don't notice it until it's too late.

I can't multi quote either,

So how do you propose that we unrig that bell without dire consequence to the organization?

What evidence do you have to support that position?

What specific course of action or plan have you come up with?

[FW]

Sorry, but I can't figure out multi-quoting....

I can't multi quote either...

It is easy, just click Reply with Quote one each one, highlight the whole quote, and save it to Notepad. Then copy the whole mess to a new post, and edit out what you don't intend to answer.

Be sure to leave all the [QUOTE and [/QUOTE parts or it will like like this line.

[JerseyJersey]

There is a quote mark with a plus next to it in the bottom right hand corner (third option ofter reply and reply with quote), this is the multi quote option.

[JerseyJersey]

click on the multi quote option at the bottom of each thread you want to quote then hit the reply to thread button and they will appear in the reply box so you can add your comments or edit out the portions of the quote you dont need.

It is easy, just click Reply with Quote one each one, highlight the whole quote,.....Be sure to leave all the [QUOTE and [/QUOTE parts or it will like like this line.

I can't multi quote either, ...