Planning a scooter dive to Heinkel restriction for very first time ...

[Akroedge540]

What's that number for the trucking school? Truck masters I think it is?

[sebaworld]

BTW, this is how you scooter back there, and not with a tow line (LOL): http://vimeo.com/m/59951745

looks good, me holding the breath isn't bad either but I'm afraid my butt will hurt a lot

[mdax]

Sounds fun to first do a scooter dive to dog leg, then a few around insulation room, stage/scooter to river intrusion, sweet surprise, main land jump and bear room...scooter in and swim out, swim in and scooter out, refine your swimming out gas calcs, enjoy the cave...

[sebaworld]

At 50 fpm, it is about 62 minutes, but that doesn't count dropping stage tanks, etc. I hope you plan to use stages, because if something happens (like a broken scooter) you will need the extra gas. Typically, I only use gas from the stages, and save my backgas (sidegas) for emergencies. FWIW, I have pushed a scooter out from 2500', and it was a looong swim. Very glad I had used a stage to get that far.

So let's say I would take two main cylinders and two stages with back gas ... what would be the optimal scenario in terms of dropping the stages ? I'm asking for your favorite with safe margins gas plan with stages in addition to main cylinders (number of tanks is not an issue in meaning of owning them not that I wanna carry 100 of those) I wanna do it just right on edge being reasonable and safe ... list your plan if you can that you consider good

Thanks, getting excited ...

[jj1987]

So let's say I would take two main cylinders and two stages with back gas ... what would be the optimal scenario in terms of dropping the stages ? I'm asking for your favorite with safe margins gas plan with stages in addition to main cylinders (number of tanks is not an issue in meaning of owning them not that I wanna carry 100 of those) I wanna do it just right on edge being reasonable and safe ... list your plan if you can that you consider good

Thanks, getting excited ...

I think somewhere along the line planning a double scooter, double stage dive in Ginnie you've slightly over complicated this. Perhaps doing a few scooter dives to build up your experience first would help?

[sebaworld]

I think somewhere along the line planning a double scooter, double stage dive in Ginnie you've slightly over complicated this. Perhaps doing a few scooter dives to build up your experience first would help?

Seems like for that kind of dive ... I was just thinking a while ago in my head to either take two scooters or one and extra gas. Sounds better I guess

[FW]

So let's say I would take two main cylinders and two stages with back gas ... what would be the optimal scenario in terms of dropping the stages ? I'm asking for your favorite with safe margins gas plan with stages in addition to main cylinders (number of tanks is not an issue in meaning of owning them not that I wanna carry 100 of those) I wanna do it just right on edge being reasonable and safe ... list your plan if you can that you consider good

Thanks, getting excited ...

Are you going solo? If not, one stage and one scooter each would be safe, assuming your SAC is good enough. To be safe solo, then either 2 scooters, or 2 stages, but not both, unless you are practicing for a bigger dive in the future. I don't drop the stage going the Henkel, I breathe it the whole time.

[Gary]

I think somewhere along the line planning a double scooter, double stage dive in Ginnie you've slightly over complicated this. Perhaps doing a few scooter dives to build up your experience first would help?

Excellent point!

If you aren't already familiar with stage bottle rock as a stage drop point you've got a LOT of cave between stage bottle rock and the Hinkle you should cover and get familiar with before going to the Hinkle.

The "doing it as a swim dive first" thumb rule is mostly about knowing the cave and understanding the gas requirements you need to get out. While I'm impressed with the people that actually did it as a swim dive there comes a point where it ceases to be reasonable to swim dive some places first. Fortunately with the main passage being fairly obvious and the gold line getting lost down a side passage on the way back isn't too much of an issue - assuming your primary light is working.

If you didn't know the cave back there and you lost your primary it would be a scary confusing slow trip out on a backup light. Haven't been back there in a couple years but I can remember problems trying to scooter coming out on a backup light. Some of the black walls and protrusions could be well camouflaged on a backup light and you could scooter strait into a solid wall. I took to bringing a backup primary when I was back there.

My first trip to the Hinkle someone had left a false horror arm stuck out from under a rock looking like a dead body in a cave collapse.

There was a perfect dive report from a bunch of years ago for your questions. Moonfuzzy's first trip to the Hinkle. There were 3 of us and when we got to the Hinkle her scooter imploded.

Practically the ideal "what if the first time you go to the Hinkle" scenario.

But there were 3 of us and she already knew the cave so it was a simple, by the book, exit. One of us towed her and one of us carried the scooter. Ended up dropping the scooter at stage bottle rock to pick up the next day (flooded scooter was heavy and unbalancing - exhausting and costing gas). Her wrist was also injured slightly in the implosion.

The complete story might be on the forum somewhere still (accident reports forum I would think) though I couldn't find it.


More gas is usually better but if you are thinking multi stages you are "probably" over complicating things. You should definitely have a better clue to your gas needs and exit planning then some advice off the internet.

[sskasser]

I don't think the "swim it before you scooter it" rule means you have to swim 3000'. It means you swim 1000' on a dive. Next dive, scooter in to 1000', drop the scooter, swim another 1000'. Rinse, repeat, leap frog in, until you're where you want to be, but have taken your time swimming the length of the cave (just not all one dive). Remember why it is you're doing this stuff....to see cave you haven't seen? Then take your time and see the cave. You won't see the same cave on a scooter you see swimming.

[Gary]

Found the report in IRAP. Not much in it to help plan a dive though: http://www.cavediver.net/forum/showt...-to-the-Hinkle