Thinking of a DPV

[Superlyte27]

I've decided to get a DPV. I've started some preliminary investigation and I think I've figured out what I'd like to do. I'm wondering what your opinions are.

I'm looking at purchasing a used UV18 and putting the LiFe batteries in it. I'm told (and if my math is right) I can get about 2.5 hour run times out of it.

I've spent several days diving a UV18, UV26 and a Minnus 1.5.
I'm really not a fan of the 26. It's stable, but doesn't turn on a dime, and it weighs a ton. I like the UV18. It's pretty nimble, weighs enough that I can carry it easily, fits into my Jetta trunk. But, battery time sucks. The Minnus on the other hand is nimble, fast as hell, weighs nothing. But I hate the price of those batteries, and more than that, my wife will kill me if I burn down the house.

So, I think I have my mind made up, but what are your thoughts. Also, if you have a UV18 with or without batteries, let me know. I'm looking for two unless you change my mind.

[jj1987]

I've decided to get a DPV. I've started some preliminary investigation and I think I've figured out what I'd like to do. I'm wondering what your opinions are.

I'm looking at purchasing a used UV18 and putting the LiFe batteries in it. I'm told (and if my math is right) I can get about 2.5 hour run times out of it.

I've spent several days diving a UV18, UV26 and a Minnus 1.5.
I'm really not a fan of the 26. It's stable, but doesn't turn on a dime, and it weighs a ton. I like the UV18. It's pretty nimble, weighs enough that I can carry it easily, fits into my Jetta trunk. But, battery time sucks. The Minnus on the other hand is nimble, fast as hell, weighs nothing. But I hate the price of those batteries, and more than that, my wife will kill me if I burn down the house.

So, I think I have my mind made up, but what are your thoughts. Also, if you have a UV18 with or without batteries, let me know. I'm looking for two unless you change my mind.

How do you feel about expensive batteries that are unsealed? The first flood could cost you $600-800. Flood a lead acid and you're out $150-200 tops (2013 prices, lead has skyrocketed).

I have two gavin 33's (slightly larger than a UV26) as well as a 18amp tube which only really gets used on boat dives.

I would be careful not to buy so much battery that you can't afford a tow scooter.

[Superlyte27]

To be honest, while your post must make perfect sense to you, and probably others, I have no clue what you're talking about.
Let me try to guess, correct me if I'm wrong...
Your stating that the LiFe batteries can't be sealed?
And if I flood them they'll be costly to replace compared to Lead Acid
And you're stating that I need a tow scooter? I think...

If all this is correct, here's my response...
the difference between 200 and 600 dollars is insignificant for the amount of times a scooter floods. I can swing 400 dollars for the benefit of 2.5 hour run time.
I have no need of a tow scooter. A. That's what my buddy is for, and B. I'll never be so far that my bailout can't swim me out of the cave.
Imagine my scooter dying. Then my rebreather dies, then my bailout goes. Then my buddies scooter goes.... I'm still okay as long as my OC buddy doesn't suffer a gas loss. Dude, if I gotta plan for 5 catastrophic events, I'm going to quit cave diving or concede that God wants me dead.

[jj1987]

To be honest, while your post must make perfect sense to you, and probably others, I have no clue what you're talking about.
Let me try to guess, correct me if I'm wrong...
Your stating that the LiFe batteries can't be sealed?
And if I flood them they'll be costly to replace compared to Lead Acid
And you're stating that I need a tow scooter? I think...

If all this is correct, here's my response...
the difference between 200 and 600 dollars is insignificant for the amount of times a scooter floods. I can swing 400 dollars for the benefit of 2.5 hour run time.
I have no need of a tow scooter. A. That's what my buddy is for, and B. I'll never be so far that my bailout can't swim me out of the cave.
Imagine my scooter dying. Then my rebreather dies, then my bailout goes. Then my buddies scooter goes.... I'm still okay as long as my OC buddy doesn't suffer a gas loss. Dude, if I gotta plan for 5 catastrophic events, I'm going to quit cave diving or concede that God wants me dead.

We all have different risk assessment. I'll admit I've been further in a cave than I know for a fact I could SWIM out with (but never without a spare scooter). Personally I feel that DPV's are one of the least reliable pieces of gear out there. I've seen cave line disable one and I've had one of my own "stick" on (although I was able to ride that out without issue, and it eventually unstuck). I've heard first hand accounts of divers who have had brush boards melt, batteries die, etc.

Personally I'm not a huge fan of swimming out. It makes a much larger decompression obligation, causes anyone waiting at the surface for you to panic because you'll have run overtime (way way overtime including deco), and it makes calculating your deco gas kinda difficult.

I'm fine with towing out of well marked tourist caves, but I don't want my head stuck in someone's crotch for an hour. I like knowing that I can see the navigational decisions as well

Edit-- saw you posted while i was replying.

Lite:

It's more about doing two dives in one day without a recharge rather than one long dive. I don't dive with any CCR friends, so I'm limited.

In that case, I guess you're all set.

[LiteHedded]

We all have different risk assessment. I'll admit I've been further in a cave than I know for a fact I could SWIM out with (but never without a spare scooter). Personally I feel that DPV's are one of the least reliable pieces of gear out there. I've seen cave line disable one and I've had one of my own "stick" on (although I was able to ride that out without issue, and it eventually unstuck). I've heard first hand accounts of divers who have had brush boards melt, batteries die, etc.

Personally I'm not a huge fan of swimming out. It makes a much larger decompression obligation, causes anyone waiting at the surface for you to panic because you'll have run overtime (way way overtime including deco), and it makes calculating your deco gas kinda difficult.

I'm fine with towing out of well marked tourist caves, but I don't want my head stuck in someone's crotch for an hour. I like knowing that I can see the navigational decisions as well

Edit-- saw you posted while i was replying.

In that case, I guess you're all set.

it's a scary thing being towed out for a long way in a place that isn't ginnie springs. there's a lot of trust there...

Lite:

It's more about doing two dives in one day without a recharge rather than one long dive. I don't dive with any CCR friends, so I'm limited.

sounds like a sweet scooter for the money if you can find an 18 to stuff full of those batteries

[Jon Nellis]

It's Valentine's day again, so it must be time my traditional rant...

... Personally I feel that DPV's are one of the least reliable pieces of gear out there. I've seen cave line disable one and I've had one of my own "stick" on (although I was able to ride that out without issue, and it eventually unstuck). I've heard first hand accounts of divers who have had brush boards melt, batteries die, etc.

It always kills me when folks that have the latest computers, regulators, rebreathers and deco planing software complain about the reliability of a scooter that is based on 30 year old technology. Those variable pitch props were designed for the Tekna, a low power scooter by today's standards, and people are surprised when they snap off on a scooter with more power. They had clutch problems with the Tekna when the military tested them back in 1987 and someone's solution to use a metal clutch for the bigger motors just moved the problem to next weakest link, the prop. The same is true for people who rewound their motor for more power but don't upgrade the brush board. That design has had numerous tweaks and just as many band-aid fixes that people have come to accept. It's like someone trying to push technical diving limits on vintage, double hose regulators and a horse collar, complaining about how they don't feel safe. There is no reason to put up with a scooter that is not as reliable as your regulators, unless you choose to use outdated equipment.


Rant over...

Happy Valentine's day,
Jon

[LiteHedded]

It's Valentine's day again, so it must be time my traditional rant...




It always kills me when folks that have the latest computers, regulators, rebreathers and deco planing software complain about the reliability of a scooter that is based on 30 year old technology. Those variable pitch props were designed for the Tekna, a low power scooter by today's standards, and people are surprised when they snap off on a scooter with more power. They had clutch problems with the Tekna when the military tested them back in 1987 and someone's solution to use a metal clutch for the bigger motors just moved the problem to next weakest link, the prop. The same is true for people who rewound their motor for more power but don't upgrade the brush board. That design has had numerous tweaks and just as many band-aid fixes that people have come to accept. It's like someone trying to push technical diving limits on vintage, double hose regulators and a horse collar, complaining about how they don't feel safe. There is no reason to put up with a scooter that is not as reliable as your regulators, unless you choose to use outdated equipment.


Rant over...

Happy Valentine's day,
Jon

i own a couple big gavins and I'd probably agree with that. but they work for me and do just fine if you keep up with proper care and feeding.
saving my nickels for an upgrade though

[jcr]

It always kills me when folks that have the latest computers, regulators, rebreathers and deco planing software complain about the reliability of a scooter that is based on 30 year old technology.

You may have the latest regulator but I assure you it is based on much older technology and happens to be one of the most reliable pieces of equipment we use as divers. I'm all for improving performance and reliability but let's not discount the tools that have worked quite well and hold most of the current records just because they are based on 30 year old technology.

While the latest scooter designs have certainly improved performance, it has yet to be seen whether they have improved overall reliability. In fact, some appear to be a step backwards in that department.

[Sludge]

You may have the latest regulator but I assure you it is based on much older technology and happens to be one of the most reliable pieces of equipment we use as divers.

I challenge anyone to find a higher-performing regulator than the Scubapro Mark 10/G-250 I bought in 1986. There isn't one.

[Tegg]

We all have different risk assessment. I'll admit I've been further in a cave than I know for a fact I could SWIM out with (but never without a spare scooter). Personally I feel that DPV's are one of the least reliable pieces of gear out there. I've seen cave line disable one and I've had one of my own "stick" on (although I was able to ride that out without issue, and it eventually unstuck). I've heard first hand accounts of divers who have had brush boards melt, batteries die, etc.
.

What brand of scooters were those? Suex? Gavin? SS?