Indian Springs is Open Again

[L.A.]

I have a pdf file of an article entitled, "The cave resonator and the Parker Turner cave collapse problem" by Doron Nof and Nathan Paldor. I believe I proofed it for some publication. It is extremely scientific in nature. Unfortunately, I am unable to send anyone the file unless I can figure out who it was for and if that owner has published it. Maybe UWS?

If you know about this, let me know, because I'm sure some CDF members would be interested.

All you need to do is ask the google....

http://earth.huji.ac.il/data/pics/ca...r+collapse.pdf

[Sludge]

That's the article, only a slightly different version. Thanks L.A.!

[L.A.]

That's the article, only a slightly different version. Thanks L.A.!

No problem

[phreaticus]

Read that article a while back....nice "theoretical" study, but the facts are known, as reported by divers doing deco in the cavern at the time of the incident.
One diver was up on or very near the ceiling, exhaling his bubbles around/into a large debris-filled solution tube. Those bubbles suddenly dislodged all the debris which "poured out of the tube in a huge quantity, almost like an inverted explosion" (as stated to me by the diver who witnessed it, who is one of the top five American cave divers...ever!...IMHO).
Simple physical disruption of the plugged debris by bubbles.....no "harmonic resonance" needed.
Freak accident...no one at fault, could not be anticipated at the time.
It can be now.

[JerseyJersey]

it was in the uws.....

[Captain Bil]

Sounds like a good arguemnet for the safety of some kind of scuba gear that does not make all those bubbles to endanger the divers. I think they call them rebreathers or something like that.

+1 and the helium advantage. I'd love to dive Indian and would gladly pay $40 and use the guide system, but only with my Meg. To my mind, rebreathers are the only sensible option for deep diving. I'll be watching and waiting for the change.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2

[Kelly Jessop]

Read that article a while back....nice "theoretical" study, but the facts are known, as reported by divers doing deco in the cavern at the time of the incident.
One diver was up on or very near the ceiling, exhaling his bubbles around/into a large debris-filled solution tube. Those bubbles suddenly dislodged all the debris which "poured out of the tube in a huge quantity, almost like an inverted explosion" (as stated to me by the diver who witnessed it, who is one of the top five American cave divers...ever!...IMHO).
Simple physical disruption of the plugged debris by bubbles.....no "harmonic resonance" needed.
Freak accident...no one at fault, could not be anticipated at the time.
It can be now.

I really got sense of what happened when diving with someone that had preincident experience there,and their description of what the place looked like. The Mud tunnel has a gradual sloping bottom once passing the restriction,but it wasn't always that way. That is A LOT of debris that shifted.

[Deep_Six]

I haven't been in Indian for a while (too long!) but am glad to hear it has quickly re-opened for diving again. Although I never dove there under a guide-type system, it's good to hear that reasonable steps are available to become an 'independent' diver there. I hope similar quick progress is made on the CCR front as well (towards 'independent CCR' diver). Thanks to all that helped make it happen.

[Sludge]

Doron sent me a PM:

There is a much more updated version which includes the answers to various comments such as those made by Phreaticus and others. It is pub #112 in the link below.
http://www.doronnof.net/publications.php

[speleodiver]

Update: the guide meeting was held today and the new guide list will be posted on the Cave Connections website. Contact information for the guides will be up as well. I am confident we have assembled a great guide team and all will work well together to insure safety remains paramount at Indian. Jason has achieved an outstanding safety record which we will strive to continue. There was input from all guides as to the guide policy and diving policies. I will have revised policies up this week. We are currently performing the guided dives necessary to reach independent diver for anyone wishing to schedule those dives.

Conditions are as follows: mud tunnel 80' with patches of 100+. Upstream is crystal clear to the EOL. Downstream has a slight milky haze but clears the closer to th EOL you get. Best viz was less then 150'.