Dumb Question

[Jim Wyatt]

Lots of experienced folks think it should be left alone.

Please make sure you have read my last post about finding EOL versus Gold line

[gmwells]

Back to back arrows denote equidistance routes of exit. Arrows do not have to point to a continous line to the surface. Wishbone circuit at Peacock has back to back arrows as I recall from many years ago, Ginnie has atleast two back to back arrows (probably many more) that come to mind that are not continuous lines and many other caves have places where the nearest point of exit changes but if you continue straight you might be making a visual jump unless you had placed a spool in the correct spot previously. You have to know the system or not trust the arrows otherwise.

I think in this case the issue may be that the loop is just such a short loop. In all other examples that come to mind, the line continues for a much longer distance in each direction from the back to back arrows. Perhaps someone was just being cute when they were originally placed. But, since it is technically correct I say leave it. Last time I was in there it had been a few years since I had swam that line and I had forgotten it was a circuit (probably because it is such a small one) until I saw the arrows. I guess they helped me.

Greg

[harmstrong]

Let's also not forget the following:

A. there is an arrow at the "dead end" of the Godzilla line pointing back to the close of the loop (exit).

B. *IF* the circuit has been set up properly, there will be a line run from the "dead end" to the close of the loop.

C. *IF* the diver(s) in question are inexperienced in that area they should be doubling back from the "dead end" anyway, as they don't actually know that they are closing the loop.

Food for thought.

[reiterman]

Someone or some group agrees there should be back-to-backs there, and I think they have been there for a LONG time. So far three folks think they should stay.

My thought is that if the crap hit the fan in the Godzilla Room and someone found the back-to-backs and continued onward they would shortly come to EOL. If they followed an arrow pointing out it would be a continuous guideline back to gold line.

I agreed. Since there is a jump if you continue on the arrows should come out. Back to back arrows should indicate a continuous line either way. This one does not.

[rjack]

A. there is an arrow at the "dead end" of the Godzilla line pointing back to the close of the loop (exit).

If the back to backs stay then this arrow is erroneous IMHO. It should point "out" which is the jump line to the mainline.

If the EOL arrow remains pointing back along the continuous line exit, then the inward pointing arrow of the back to backs should be removed. Since right now you have 2 arrows pointing at each other but no exit in their midst.

[harmstrong]

If the back to backs stay then this arrow is erroneous IMHO. It should point "out" which is the jump line to the mainline.

If the EOL arrow remains pointing back along the continuous line exit, then the inward pointing arrow of the back to backs should be removed. Since right now you have 2 arrows pointing at each other but no exit in their midst.

You misunderstood me. The current arrow configuration is exactly as you describe it should be. The EOL arrow points to the shortest distance of exit, which is "closing the loop" on this circuit- imagine that the circuit looks more like a 6 than a 0. Make better sense?

[Kelly Jessop]

Insulation Room Circuit in Ginnie comes to mind, although this one is a closed loop, rather than the open loop like Godzilla.

.

Good point. The Insulation tunnel is a complete loop that is independent to any other line,so back to back line arrows would make sense,versus the Godzilla line. I know an argument that people used to have was where should the line arrow face at the end of the Peanut line. Since this is frequently set up as a circuit,many used to argue the closest exit is toward Olsen,so the line arrow at the EOL should point away from the peanut restriction denoting the gold line 20ft away is the closest exit,and others would argue that it is a continuous line back to the P1 cavern so it should point that direction,which is currently does. I am sure the arguments and rationalizations could be endless,and I think most of us would agree that navigation should be clear to everyone,and inconsistencies have resulted in accidents,which is inexcusable if we haven't learned from them.

[Shocky]

Sounds to me like another issue similar to " Snap and Gap" at hill 400. Someone thought it was a good idea at the time. Don't know.

[Kelly Jessop]

Sounds to me like another issue similar to " Snap and Gap" at hill 400. Someone thought it was a good idea at the time. Don't know.

Snap and gap was a good idea in theory,but had many failures. Someone would deploy the snap and gap,and then another team would put it back,thus the first team no longer had a continuous line.Also,line the line gap made in the expressway tunnel for lost line search training,the line was held together with two bolt snaps,and would be undone during training. Unfortunately,if you bumped this line,sometimes the bolt snaps would become uncoupled.

[RHolmesJr]