First Dive Today at Ginnie

[rddvet]

I understand everyone's concern with jumping into doubles for cavern. I did cavern in a single and wish I had gotten proficient in doubles and done cavern in doubles.

But before getting too concerned, it appears as though the instructor(who you can find is an experienced instructor if you figured out who it is from another thread) is spending 10 days with them, which I suspect means he is taking extra time to get them through the tech/doubles hiccups and give them their cavern/intro cert all together. I don't suspect their being tossed in doubles and shoved well above their skill level. Yes based on the post they entered the ballroom, but I suspect that's why they chose the ballroom. It's the most benign choice in the area, and they could practice trim and buoyancy in open water.

Then again I could be way off base. I've met their instructor once when I purchased some tanks from him and he seems level headed and not the type to be overstepping training, but I could be wrong. I just doubt it based on what I've read so far.

Let's try to not add too much negative to what should be a positive first experience in the overhead.

[a64pilot]

You know, I've seen people that just "took" to doubles, it was mastered almost immediately, and I've seen people that just never could get comfortable with them, number of hours doing anything is not necessarily the best determiner of when someone is proficient. Let's give the instructor the benefit of the doubt, unless something says other wise?

[a64pilot]

Cavern is designed to be in open water configuration.

You may be right, but if so, that's foolish, it's still an overhead environment.

[navycaver]

Congratulations on your first trip into the overhead.
I believe you were signing in with your group Thursday afternoon around 4PM, ahead of me. If it was your group you looked very excited. I'm glad you had a good first dive, it only gets better.
As stated by others listen to everything, have fun, and do not get discouraged with the repetitive drills they are well worth it.

[Superlyte27]

I think you should give the name of this instructor who allows someone to make their first ever dive in doubles during their cavern class.

His name would be Peter McCumber.
Oh, and for the record, their first ever dive in doubles was during their double's class. We spent nearly two days doing nothing but playing in 8' of water to make sure trim, buoyancy, and propulsion was good. Maine & Wife are paying me by the day, and I've got the entire month of November cleared. I've got NOTHING to gain by rushing them through their training. If they were not ready to proceed into the ballroom, they would not be in the ballroom. I challenge you to find a student of mine that is not ready for the card for which he or she is certed for. Got an issue with that? If so we can discuss it in person rather than behind some mask intending to silt out this forum. I'll be here all week.

[Sludge]

Sorry if there's been a misunderstanding, but in Post #1 he said they made their first ever dive in doubles - they did okay, so their instructor then took them into the cavern. Sounds to me like they made their first ever dive in doubles in the cavern.

[Superlyte27]

Actually, that's not the hangup I had. "first ever dive in doubles during cavern class" was the hangup. We got to the spring early, spent all day in 3-8' of water. At the end of the day, after they had proven they were squared away, I wanted to show them something for all their hard work. We swam to the bottom of the ballroom, made a circle or two, and came out. It wasn't cavern class. It was double's class that ended in a guided dive through the ballroom.

Now, fact of the matter is, no one who has posted in this thread has ever been in one of my classes. So you don't know that I don't cut corners. I don't rush. I don't push, and I don't certify those who aren't qualified. I understand that there are instructors who cut corners, don't teach all that needs to be taught, and cert people who simply pay for class. So, maybe I should cut you some slack. But, if you believe that's how I operate, ask some people whom you respect and who know my high standards and it should change your mind. Or I'll introduce you to some of my students I have taught, and you can judge for yourself on their certification.

[JerseyJersey]

Lets all try to remember our first classes...... when you are new your perception is different in the beginning than it is in the end.....

My first dive in a cave was Ginnie and after the dive the instructor told us he was impressed with how far we had gotten.... past the Lips! We were quite proud and also thought we had damn near gotten to the end of the cave we had worked so hard and gone so far. Our enthusiasm was upped a few levels.

We soon learned different and our perceptions changed as we became more familiar with terminology and the differences in things.... and how big the cave world really was.

Lets keep in mind how someone new can say something that to them is correct but to others more experienced means something else.... a doubles class, followed by a guided cavern dive, followed by a cavern course..... to the just learning.....we worked on doubles and got to go in the cavern and tomorrow we will work on skills and drills and will end with a swim to the grate......

Lets not stomp all over every learning divers enthusiasm... they are learning skills AND terminology.

Thank you to Jim Wyatt for the encouragement and thank you to all the cavers in NJ who read my reports each nite of class I posted back home in a NJ dive forum and responded with encouragement and accolades instead of laughing or jumping all over what I didnt know.....

[Sludge]

No problem, Superlyte, just keeping it real.

[mainedvr]

I should have been much more specific, I forgot that this is not a flame free zone which is fine by me cause I really take what most people post for what it is...someone that I have no idea what they know or who they are they could be a five year old that is on daddy's computer.

Yes as was mentioned we have planned this trip for over a year and originally the plan was to learn doubles at home well that did not work out. So we worked on boyancy and trim and propulsion (which I found that I still stunk at the frog kick but am now after 8 hours of drills and practice finally just smell kinda of funny but do think I am getting it).

So the plan was to spend time working on doubles if our instructor felt after one day we just had no chance then we would go back to singles and proceed from there. Well, as it turns out we were very comfortable with the doubles and after some tweaking and a wing change for my wife we were at a point that our instructor began our drills. I trust my instructor or else I would have gone home, #### even today at the end of our day he wanted to show us something in the ball room that was still part of the cavern (but I couldnt see the ambient light at the exit so I said no) he simple said ok we retreived the reel that my wife ran in very well I might add and headed to the surface. When we reached the surface he asked what was wrong I stated that I was not sure if that still was in the cavern zone and so I did not want to go outside my training, and he said awsome that being conservative is great and we did or dive debrief and moved on.

So, again I should have been more clear and probably will make the same mistake when I am very excited about something again so oh well, but I also appreciate that folks care about good training I just think that maybe a request for some clarification is in order before tying an instructor to an open water rig and making him dive it over and over again for torture if you think something is wrong.

Well, tomorrow we begin intro as we did pass cavern today very tough but it built lots of confidence and muscle memory I know my wife will not swim under the line again as she ended up tangled on her manifold which I calmly removed and we made our accent. And the lights out air sharing was a huge confidence builder and well the bump and go lights out exit that was nice cause I finally got to give my wife a good shove and not get beat for it.

More fun tomorrow and for the next 7 days

regards

I understand everyone's concern with jumping into doubles for cavern. I did cavern in a single and wish I had gotten proficient in doubles and done cavern in doubles.

But before getting too concerned, it appears as though the instructor(who you can find is an experienced instructor if you figured out who it is from another thread) is spending 10 days with them, which I suspect means he is taking extra time to get them through the tech/doubles hiccups and give them their cavern/intro cert all together. I don't suspect their being tossed in doubles and shoved well above their skill level. Yes based on the post they entered the ballroom, but I suspect that's why they chose the ballroom. It's the most benign choice in the area, and they could practice trim and buoyancy in open water.

Then again I could be way off base. I've met their instructor once when I purchased some tanks from him and he seems level headed and not the type to be overstepping training, but I could be wrong. I just doubt it based on what I've read so far.

Let's try to not add too much negative to what should be a positive first experience in the overhead.