Scenario: OW diver asks you where is the cave.

[Kelly Jessop]

You are at your favorite dive site,and really it is only appropriate for only cave diving since there isn't really a basin for OW diver. An open water diver approaches wearing a BC with snorkel,and nothing to indicate the possibility of being cavern certified,and they ask you,"how do you find the cave". What will you do?

[whodunit68]

ask what kind of car he drives and where the keys are?
this is a terrible situation and one I've certainly faced already - almost. I give general directions loaded with warnings/cautions. I'd rather he/she know about the general idea and have a chance of getting out rather than potentially go in there, silt the hell out of it searching, and the reality of it is look at the scenario you've created doesn't allow for any realistic options. If there isn't much of an OW basin, how difficult would it be, if I am there anyway and an OW diver finds it, that it's going to be a terribly difficult entrance to find? No OW basin suggests relatively small, etc. I'm there. OW diver there. Anything that popular is not one of the secret sites that requires a handshake and moonshine donation and a sacrifice of a witch to get into. However, the poll questions make it impossible to make this argument. They way they're worded....no way I'll say here's a map have fun without warnings. No way I won't tell him/her that it's not an OW site. So I'm going to answer "no" above but the reality is different than the poll.

He/she will find it without my help. If I get the chance to provide some cautionary guidance, I will. It's my obligation to.
Besides that, as been said 8,438,773 times, you can't fix stupid.

[cwick]

I would tell them a story about an OW diver who I met at Wacissa; a day after he died.

[Kelly Jessop]

ask what kind of car he drives and where the keys are?
this is a terrible situation and one I've certainly faced already - almost. I give general directions loaded with warnings/cautions. I'd rather he/she know about the general idea and have a chance of getting out rather than potentially go in there, silt the hell out of it searching, and the reality of it is look at the scenario you've created doesn't allow for any realistic options. If there isn't much of an OW basin, how difficult would it be, if I am there anyway and an OW diver finds it, that it's going to be a terribly difficult entrance to find? No OW basin suggests relatively small, etc. I'm there. OW diver there. Anything that popular is not one of the secret sites that requires a handshake and moonshine donation and a sacrifice of a witch to get into. However, the poll questions make it impossible to make this argument. They way they're worded....no way I'll say here's a map have fun without warnings. No way I won't tell him/her that it's not an OW site. So I'm going to answer "no" above but the reality is different than the poll.

He/she will find it without my help. If I get the chance to provide some cautionary guidance, I will. It's my obligation to.
Besides that, as been said 8,438,773 times, you can't fix stupid.

I intentionally left this as a yes/no question,with no maybe,because how we handle a situtation can be ther difference between a fatal accident and not. There are a lot of things we will do to defuse the situtation,but ultimately we have to tell the person yes or no.

[whodunit68]

I intentionally left this as a yes/no question,with no maybe,because how we handle a situtation can be ther difference between a fatal accident and not. There are a lot of things we will do to defuse the situtation,but ultimately we have to tell the person yes or no.

understood but again, if this is a real situation, if the guy/gal shows up with gear, etc, do you really think he or she will listen to my no? I stand behind my no but I full well know the reality is in my opinion, in most cases, it won't change the result. Thanks for the clarification.

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I voted No

Then explain the best I can why and desperately try to scare the #### out of them.

[whodunit68]

I voted No
Then explain the best I can why and desperately try to scare the #### out of them.

Like. Ooops this isn't Facebook, sorry.

[FW]

I intentionally left this as a yes/no question,with no maybe,because how we handle a situtation can be ther difference between a fatal accident and not. There are a lot of things we will do to defuse the situtation,but ultimately we have to tell the person yes or no.

I am not so sure I agree with that. Sometimes it is better to let them think you are going to tell them what they want to hear. If you refuse, you loose their attention, and nothing you say after that will do any good. It might be better to say, "Sure, I will tell you, but here are all the problems you will face...."

Years ago I got a call from someone wanting to buy a reel. I asked if he was trained, and he got all huffy. I told him I would give him a reel free, if he would show me where he planned to use it. I took him about 100' into Craig's Mill (in north Alabama), and he turned the dive, and gave me the reel back. I got a virgin cave out of the deal

[Kelly Jessop]

I am not so sure I agree with that. Sometimes it is better to let them think you are going to tell them what they want to hear. If you refuse, you loose their attention, and nothing you say after that will do any good. It might be better to say, "Sure, I will tell you, but here are all the problems you will face...."

In America where it is Mom,apple pie,and litigation,this is an area of concern. If I told someone that wasn't trained how to find a cave diving site when they were obviously open water divers,would I be held to contribuatory negilgence. Considering there was a successful suit of one dive buddy suing another for actions on a dive,what makes us think this isn't far fetched. Cave diving historically is more open about publicizing dive sites than dry cavers,and dry cavers have some very good reasons with much success.
Is it good that we make things easy for anybody to find how to access these systems ie directions,gps numbers etc? Land owners may argue no.

[Sludge]

I tell them to swim around until they see the warning sign with the picture of the grim reaper with all the dead bodies in open water gear scattered around the bottom. Then I ask them to leave a note on their car designating their next of kin. Because we'll need to know who to contact.