Interesting conversation at Manatee (with a new Ranger)

[Kelly Jessop]

I asked a ranger on check out once why 5pm and was told because it gets dark. No joke. I informed her it's always dark in the cave. She shrugged her shoulders.

They don't make the rules,they follow them. If cave divers sit there and argue (not saying you did),then that seems to get reported,and we get a bad reputation,which makes negotiating things difficult. Wholesale changing of park hours has to go up the chain,and this isn't done at the park level.

[Kelly Jessop]

Update to this thread.

A buddy and I were at Manatee today (3Mar13) and were notified that we were not allowed to use our scooters. The same explanation as others had reported previously was given: “We are now enforcing the rule that has been in place all along, scooters are not allowed.” Further discussions with the ranger at the gate, after he got further clarification from the park manager, was that scooters are not permitted, even with DPV certification. He went on to indicate that this is due to the impact of scooters/scooter divers in the cave system. I did my best to diplomatically explain and contrast the difference between individuals properly trained and qualified vs. the non-qualified, however it was not the appropriate time/place/audience for that discussion.

Quite unfortunate as current conditions are absolutely fantastic. We were there on Saturday (with scooters) and had crystal clear conditions and relatively low flow from catfish right through to beyond the second crack.

-Blake

This may be the future policy. There is a feeling in the state that scooters cause damage,even though education has been given on this subject,it is fairly deeply rooted. If a scooter is driven properly it actually is a cave conservation tool. Parks are trying to have consistent rules,and all state parks ban scooters except in special circumstances,ie scientific permit where penetration is needed etc.

[mdax]

Is anyone on this thread or in our community currently talking to folks at Manatee regarding scooters? Are they representing cave divers desires or something else?

[stairman]

The unimformed employees may picture the cave with stallagtites breaking loose behind the runaway rider or a cloud of propwash behind them, blinding other divers. It is unfortunate with the flow, that this is being enforced.

[SR]

For the area upstream of Catfish Hotel a scooter allows you to progress thru the the cave while staying away from the walls.
A swimming diver has to "hide" from the flow. This brings them closer to the walls and other cave features.

[a64pilot]

As an avid scooter driver myself I hate to say this, but all you have to do is dive JB to see that scooters in the hands of some do cause damage, back about 3000 ft., there is the huge furrow from I assume a run-away scooter. I don't know anything about how it happened, perhaps it was unavoidable.

[FW]

As an avid scooter driver myself I hate to say this, but all you have to do is dive JB to see that scooters in the hands of some do cause damage, back about 3000 ft., there is the huge furrow from I assume a run-away scooter. I don't know anything about how it happened, perhaps it was unavoidable.

It is my understanding that the scooter flooded, causing it to hit the floor running. Pretty much unavoidable.

[mer]

The good thing about Manatee is that the cave self heals really quickly.

If you had a runaway there, there are many places a) big enough to turn around and ride it out, b) plenty of rock/bottom that you could use and a month later no one would be able to tell anything happened (yes there are sensitive areas, but easy to avoid). The sandy/gravely bottom areas shift around on their own already. Manatee is big enough that you don't have to be super experienced at scootering to avoid messing up the cave, although I highly encourage proper training and experience. Also, Manatee is it's own weed out... if you don't have your stuff together, the high flow won't let you get very far, even with a scooter.

I concur that proper scooter use in cave of this side is a conservation tool.

[LiteHedded]

guess I'm never going back to manatee. glad blake made the drive and found out the hard way instead of me

[jason]

This is unlikely to be popular, but I'm not sure that referring to disturbing mud as "damage" is really helpful in terms of access and management. It might be unsightly to some cave divers and is indicative or poor technique, but it is not damage in the same context as breaking formations or rubbing off goethite (the black deposits on cave walls). Unfortunately, the only thing that non-diving cave and park managers hear is "damage."