My bad. For some reason Art Greenberg flashed across my lame brain. Probably too much FB with Art & too HE over the years.Originally Posted by Greenwood_60
... but who is Art?
Welcome to the Cave Diver's Forum.
My bad. For some reason Art Greenberg flashed across my lame brain. Probably too much FB with Art & too HE over the years.... but who is Art?
Bill Ripley
Rebreathers are something that we have to go to in order to dive the way we want to dive. They are not something we go to for any other reason.
I wasn't alluding to that. I was saying that if you have a primary fail, you go to a secondary that has a ton of burn time, plenty to get you out of the cave. People used to carry more than 2 backups due to the burn times of the backup lights was pathetic.
Really? Now you are getting on the bandwagon too. Just remember who has the JFK quote on their signature line! lol
understood...I'm fairly new to cave diving as I'm only full cave for 2 or 3 years now. I've heard to carry backups for the potential of failure, not because they don't last very long. So, I carry the extra one just in case of the possibility of failure. Plus it will be much easier to see you on the way out if my light is working...
----
Cave Mann
I don't think that was the case. Everything I have read says that your backups need to have sufficient burn time for the dive being planned. I think it was about the reliability of filament bulbs. Really though, it's about the difference in probability. Say the probably of the light (primary, backup, whatever) you are using failing at 1:25 dives. Your primary fails once for every 25 dives, putting you on a backup light. For every 25 times your primary fails, your backup is going to fail, or 1:625. Add a third backup and it goes to 1:15,625.
Granted, LED lights are far more reliable than incandescent... but by how much? If an old incandescent was really 1:25, an LED would have to be 1:125 to justify going from 3 to 2 total lights. Assuming your primary and backups are equally reliable, and assuming we actually know how reliable our lights are. Carrying 3 LED lights, at odds of 1:125, gives you 1:1,953,125 odds. Assuming those numbers, carrying 4 seems silly. Someone gave an excellent presentation regarding odds at the NSS-CDS conference... I apologize that I can't remember his name.
You're right... Ayn Rand, F.A. Hayek, or Ludwig von Mises would be more appropriate.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." --JFK
Are you talking about Peter Buzzacott?
Yes, I believe it was. I couldn't remember if it was his talk, or Dr. Harris's talk.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." --JFK
It was peter buzzacott
Since we're finally - and openly - discussing solo diving, here's something extra I bring to my solo dives:
I know I talked about this a year or so ago (maybe another dive forum), but I personally believe that if you solo cave dive you have the responsibility to your rescue or recovery team to let them know where you are. That means diving your dive plan and leaving that plan where it can be found.
Other information, like who you are, how to contact your doctor/family, what time you went in, how long you are planning to be in, maximum air/scrubber time, where you are dropping stages, if you're running a scooter and where you will be dropping it, etc., is crucial information to concerned parties. I made up a check-off/fill-in-the-blank sheet that I mass produce on my printer and leave one filled-out copy on my dashboard before each dive. Takes 2 minutes to fill out. Hope no one ever has the reason to need it.
Helping your rescuer(s) or the recovery team is one of those cave courtesies that can make a big difference for both of you, especially when you're in any of the larger systems.
BTW: If you think by telling people how long you're going to be under water is going to increase the chances that someone is going to break into your vehicle, well those chances went up the minute your head dropped below the surface.
Bill Ripley
Rebreathers are something that we have to go to in order to dive the way we want to dive. They are not something we go to for any other reason.
Actually it was a combination of short burn times and reliability. Some of us would plan our dives knowing our primary lights did not have enough burn time for the entire dive. Back ups were short on run time and failed often. Generally I planned to have enough lights for double the run time I would need and double the back ups to make that time to allow for failures. This may sound like over kill but back in the day I had a number of dark exits due to running through my primary lights burn time and having back ups fail and run out as well. For some dives taking two primaries and/or 6-8 back ups was the way to go. Now I have to remind myself to charge our primaries and change our back up batteries with how reliable and long they run.
When Xenia and I met I was still running on old style incandescent back ups. While doing a cavern tour, before she started her cave training, we had both the back ups that I gave her to dive and both of my back ups fail on the same dive. These were a back up that up to this point had been on the top end of reliability. Now we have been running on the same back ups lights for over 5 years without a single failure or flood. Knocking many times on wood.
With me... It's what I won't bring on a solo dive. Anything that might distract me such as a camera, new equipment, etc.
As a pastor I am amazed that some of my best communions with God are when I am in the underworld!
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks