Eye to Ear..... does it have to be an adventure ??

[Dave]

Thanks Rich. I wasnt sure about the ear, and it looked cold and nasty.
Looking back, it would have been a better option though!

[John L.]

OK, So for the tourist diver, who does not dive devils that often, did not know a temp line was in place on the first dive, does not know who put it there, does not know when it will be removed, and does not know the local protocol, you are suggesting that he should do a "trust me" dive, not run a reel, and just hope that everything will be OK during his exit?

Dave

The chain was extended on the buoy in the Ear (which is covered in tannic water) so it's visible from the decks, so I'd suggest that if the Eye's a mess, an alternative would be to swim around the tarp, drop down the chain on the buoy and enter via the Ear.....

Safe diving,

Rich

P.S. When the "temporary guideline" is in place it's usually marked clearly as such by a hand written slate.....I don't know why it wasn't this time and I don't agree with the cookie idea at all!!

I entered thru the ear twice on Sunday, the water is still tanic at the top, but you can easily see the entrance dropping down by the ball, and there were NO lines at all.
John

[HomoErectus]

and I don't agree with the cookie idea at all!!

I see where you are coming, but I have one question.
You have deployed a reel anywhere in the cave, and on your way out you see a cookie on your line, will you remove the reel or be pissed off and head out without the reel ??

[jammer]

Well as for me I would leave my reel and be pissed. I feel that a human life is worth more than my reel. I would leave my slate also telling them I have left the cave and the reel belongs to me to go ahead and pull it that I am on surface waiting on them. I would wait on whoever placed the cookie and have a long talk to them about it. I was trained to never use someone else's guidline and to never make any visual jumps or gaps. I do understand if you have discussed this prior to the dive and had agreed upon it but to just see a line and throw a cookie on it "NOPE" not happening. So if you guys through the Ear and see a line ran it would probably be mine cause I do not dive without my guideline.

Well, back in MY day...

Reel sharing was part of the normal curriculum. Of course, my instructor was really old school, going back to the 1970s.

Nobody had ever seen a line cookie. Clothespins were the nondirectional marker of choice. Line protocol dictated that if you returned to your reel and there was a clothespin clipped on it, you took the clothespin and left the reel. When the diver that left the clothespin returned and saw it was gone, he knew the owner of the reel took it, and he took the reel.

I remember one day at Madison Blue when there was a NSS-CDS social (remember those?), and the first team in ran a reel, and everyone else left a clothespin. There were about six clothespins on the reel's handle. Everyone knew that, even if YOUR clothespin was gone, you took one of the others, and when the last team came out and there were no clothespins left, they took the reel. Topside, everyone got their reel or clothespin back.

Of course, this was back when cave divers got along with each other.

I sat in on a friend's Intro and Apprentice courses last year, and I was surprised that reel sharing was never addressed. But then, I shouldn't have been surprised. With the polarity of the current cave diving community, I haven't reel-shared in about eight years.

Russell

[awindhorst]

In my cave class, which was in March, we were taught how to share a reel with one or multiple teams. Pretty simple, just has to be talked over on the surface first though. i have only dove in the system once but it looked to me like there were many many places for a good tieoff so there should be no reason for lines in the mid water of a passage. Seems like to me that there are a number of people in too big a hurry to get in the cave and therefore skimp on the reel.

Adam

[Dave Lizdas]

What if goldline was used for the "temporary permanent" line? All divers could trust it, problem solved forever, case closed.

Six lines through the eye's gonna snare someone.

P.S. I like my tourist cave

[Gary]

Furthermore, if the entrance is a mess, and lines are everywhere, I agree, dont add to it....Dont do the dive, Its a simple decision.

Of course that is the correct answer anytime that running a line or diving into a cave where you, your dive plan, your line, or your team may interfere with another team's safety who was there before you. Just call the dive and return later when you won't endanger youselves or another team in ahead of you.

In the face of increased numbers of cave divers, site traffic, vaccation time pressures and 4 lines in ahead of most teams these days these basic ideas have kind of fallen by the way-side.

However, I wouldn't think a line installed by the Ginnie Staff running from open water to the main line and usully labled on both ends with a plastic slate reading "Temporary-Permanant Guideline DO NOT REMOVE" constitutes a "trust me dive".

I think most people would find following the line and marking the tie-in with a cookie/marker rather then a personal reel, or else skipping the dive on interference grounds a valid proceedure. Line sharing with another TEAM has been used less often due to several accidents related to poor line sharing protocol but shouldn't be an issue with a installed line like a permanant line like this one.

Also it's not like the gold line there towards the Ear side doesn't run to within arms reach of Open Water either. If the line were removed you could make a guideline exit that way. Or follow the current out either of the two exits - assumably running your saftey reel as you would do anytime the exit line / guideline "disappeared".

[jammer]

well I must admitt I was one of those that never put rocks on top of my line one time and only one time. I was doing a pleasure dive and saw one of my favorite Instructors there and I went in through the Eye to the Ear and I was I guess the only one that had made decision besides my favorite instructor. He writes on his slate hello want to do some drills I gave him the ok. We were at the Sign in the Ear he gave me the out of air I deployed him the long hose and we proceeded out he said get on line got on line and he turned out the lights WOW!!! no big deal rite? Nope Wrong big deal indeed I had not put rocks on line and it went left into the crevise I know all of you know of very well. I fell him pushing my leg to go and I was stuck could not go forward and the line was on left and I couldnt go I heard him cackle through his reg. then push my leg then start getting pis#ed off then push then cackle out laughing then push I pulled line right and came out a little and got through. We got out and he said I bet your A## puts im line placements better next time huh. I said you bet ya. But very well learned lesson.

[Rich]

and I don't agree with the cookie idea at all!!

I see where you are coming, but I have one question.
You have deployed a reel anywhere in the cave, and on your way out you see a cookie on your line, will you remove the reel or be pissed off and head out without the reel ??

Depends if it was chocolate chip, oatmeal raisin or peanut butter......

Safe diving,

Rich