In an emergency, would you turn the dive or take a closer but unverified exit?

[Red Hat Jef]

Did a dive in Orange Grove today, turning the dive at Challenge. Around 900 feet, the arrows flip direction, indicating that the next exit ahead is now closer. At around 500 feet to challenge, I started thinking - if I was to have a true emergency and needed to get out ASAP, which way would I go? I know my path backwards is verified but a lot further. I've been in the cave before, and feel pretty comfortable that I could get out there, assuming there aren't any broken gold lines or cave-ins I will have to contend with. Assuming the cave doesn't have any restrictions or major changes in depth ahead (so distance and non-verified line is the only thing I'm worried about) I think I'd have to be pretty close to the other exit to continue, instead of turning around.

What would you do?

[FW]

Did a dive in Orange Grove today, turning the dive at Challenge. Around 900 feet, the arrows flip direction, indicating that the next exit ahead is now closer. At around 500 feet to challenge, I started thinking - if I was to have a true emergency and needed to get out ASAP, which way would I go? I know my path backwards is verified but a lot further. I've been in the cave before, and feel pretty comfortable that I could get out there, assuming there aren't any broken gold lines or cave-ins I will have to contend with. Assuming the cave doesn't have any restrictions or major changes in depth ahead (so distance and non-verified line is the only thing I'm worried about) I think I'd have to be pretty close to the other exit to continue, instead of turning around.

What would you do?

If it was a system I had never dived, I would calculate if I/we could reach the original entrance. If I didn't have enough gas, I would gamble on the closest entrance. What else could you do at that point?

[JerseyJersey]

The emergency..... needing to exit fast vs needing to exit. I was taught always go out the way you came in in these cases if possible. But if my buddy was having a seizure or some other medical emergency or loss of gas was significant and the difference in time was a factor..... it is a call I/we would have to make. Some systems, I may have passed a possible exit on the way in and could use those, maybe I am doing a traverse and am more than halfway, maybe the exit is 8 foot around with a 6 foot gator and 2 snakes playing in it...too many factors to make a hard fast statement.

But overall, I was taught go out the nearest KNOWN exit. Which is normally, where I came in.

[LCF]

If I knew the path to the next exit, knew it was closer, and knew we could get there, I'd go to the closer exit.

If I didn't know those things but could SEE the exit and that my route there was clear, I would consider going there, but not if the emergency was something which required getting someone out of the water, unless I knew that could be done at that exit.

I plan my gas to have enough to go back. Going back is the most certain exit.

[RN]

You should be planning all your dives with enough gas to exit the way you came in. The only prudent thing to do is exit the way you came in. Keep this in mind - if you have not verified the exit how do you know the line will end in sight of natural light. What if the line ended 100' from from open water and around the corner from it. Let's look at Devil's as an example. From the beginning of the gold line you can't see natural light from either the Eye or the Ear. What if the end of that line you were gambling on was set up the same way? What if you chose to go toward the Eye and instead went into the Catacombs? Unless you can see natural light heading toward an unverified exit is too much of a gamble, under any circumstance.

[bullfrog]

You should be planning all your dives with enough gas to exit the way you came in. The only prudent thing to do is exit the way you came in. Keep this in mind - if you have not verified the exit how do you know the line will end in sight of natural light. What if the line ended 100' from from open water and around the corner from it. Let's look at Devil's as an example. From the beginning of the gold line you can't see natural light from either the Eye or the Ear. What if the end of that line you were gambling on was set up the same way? What if you chose to go toward the Eye and instead went into the Catacombs? Unless you can see natural light heading toward an unverified exit is too much of a gamble, under any circumstance.

Great point!!!

[navycaver]

You should be planning all your dives with enough gas to exit the way you came in. The only prudent thing to do is exit the way you came in. Keep this in mind - if you have not verified the exit how do you know the line will end in sight of natural light. What if the line ended 100' from from open water and around the corner from it. Let's look at Devil's as an example. From the beginning of the gold line you can't see natural light from either the Eye or the Ear. What if the end of that line you were gambling on was set up the same way? What if you chose to go toward the Eye and instead went into the Catacombs? Unless you can see natural light heading toward an unverified exit is too much of a gamble, under any circumstance.

Rob,
Very good point, If I could I would change my poll response. That is a good comparison. Thanks!

[Squirrel Girl]

You should be planning all your dives with enough gas to exit the way you came in. The only prudent thing to do is exit the way you came in. Keep this in mind - if you have not verified the exit how do you know the line will end in sight of natural light. What if the line ended 100' from from open water and around the corner from it. Let's look at Devil's as an example. From the beginning of the gold line you can't see natural light from either the Eye or the Ear. What if the end of that line you were gambling on was set up the same way? What if you chose to go toward the Eye and instead went into the Catacombs? Unless you can see natural light heading toward an unverified exit is too much of a gamble, under any circumstance.

I'm pretty sure you can see light from the Ear but not the Eye at the beginning/end of the gold line. (if it's daylight :-p)

When I read this original question, I was thinking of a system like Peacock where there are numerous exit points. I may not have been to every one of them, but that's a well discussed system and I very well have talked in detail about what might become an emergency route out. Yes, there might be some doubt of the 100% safety of the route out, but then there's always some danger. I mean there could have been a collapse on your original route. Likely--no. Possible--yes. So while I agree that you should follow the rules and blah, blah, blah, I can well imagine a scenario where you want the NEAREST EXIT!

Here's my story. One day I make this very, very fun dive to Waterhole with FW and Carl. Great, fun, relaxing dive. Good air consumption for me.

Next day, FW has left and Neil is now joining Carl and me. We're short of time before Peacock closes and we simple plan a dive from the main entrance to Olsen and return. Something I've done many times. Well, something is not right this time. Carl takes off like a bat out of hell. Weird, since we dove so well together the day before. Neil's plenty far ahead, too. What's with these guys? Neil turns around and gives me an "OK" signal. Nope, I am not returning it. We are just a little more strung out than what I feel comfortable enough to let them think all is "OK."

Finally I figure it out. My right fin is coming off. I find a (rare) rock that I feel like I won't be destroying the cave environment if I kick against. I shove my foot back into the fin properly and within 2 strokes, it's back all floppy. WTH? At this point, I see by the arrows, that Olsen is closer than the main entrance and that is WHERE I'M GOING! We pop our heads up, discuss the situation, and I discover that I hadn't used fin keepers like I normally do, the zipper on my bootie went down, and that was why my foot wouldn't stay in the fin. We sort that out (albeit w/o the fin keeper) and return without incident to the main entrance.

I swear, if I die in a cave it's gonna be due to a fin issue. I've had problems with the attachment of spring straps as non-original equipment (I finally decided I will no longer dive fins that don't have springs as original manufacturer equipment).

My point to all this is, sure, *normally* we dive our plan and keep an extra third (maybe more) of gas for emergencies. Normally, we can exit the way we come and all is well. Theoretically, that makes sense for a gas issue (isn't that what we think is most critical?). But a progressive fin problem can be much, much more dangerous. What you could have exited safely on reserve gas may not at all be sufficient if you can't swim at the rate you went in at.

There are any number of ways this scenario could come into play. It could be from a progressive fin failure. It could be from something much worse than happened to me. It could have been a non-recoverable fin failure (because, theoretically on my actual dive, I could have stopped in the cave, discovered my zipper was down and fixed it by myself on the way in--though in reality I didn't). I could have lost a pin into the silt that had held the strap on the fin. What if your buddy had a weird accident and injured his leg? Had a weird medical thing--leg cramp that just wouldn't resolve or something. Could you pull him out?

Earlier on in my cave diving journeys, I thought I was getting into a OOG emergency in Peacock (turns out I wasn't, but I was concerned), and suddenly all that good theory, wasn't working so well for me.

So, it's not likely to happen, but I've had enough (and varied) fin and other problems that I can envision where I want that nearest exit. In a cave like Peacock, there's a good chance that my buddy has been to that entrance that I haven't. We may have talked about that entrance. Or I've talked about it with someone else. So, no it's not 100%, but that's where I'm going during my emergency.

I do think Kelly has an important point. You better have a good way to sort things out with your buddy during said emergency so you don't waste precious time arguing, or going opposite ways.

[PfcAJ]

Depends on the cave, my deco obligation, and the nature of the problem, and what resources I have available.

[huxley]

the gold line in OG sits pretty far in as well and if you are not familiar and don't know you have to go this could end up problematic as well. No daylight anywhere close at the sign.