the wkpp isn't forcing any rules on anyone...Originally Posted by jcook
Welcome to the Cave Diver's Forum.
the wkpp isn't forcing any rules on anyone...
Jordon, I didn't say that. I think I've been very forthcoming and I'm doing my best to answer questions and tell it like it is. If I had it my way, cave diving wouldn't need to be regulated at all. There wouldn't be secret caves or cut back lines, and there wouldn't be handprints at 3500' in ginnie springs, either. For the record, I drive 4 hours and help out (in or out of the water, sometimes at ridiculous hours of the night) because the exploration and research couldn't happen without people working together.
If you're interested in my personal opinion on the matter, I think the access policy at Emerald and Clearcut are good models to build off of. But even though Emerald connects to Wakulla, it does not equal Wakulla. They are two very different sites. Since some of the proposals at the Wakulla meeting a few months ago (did you attend? I drove 4 hours just for the hearing) included 'open water classes', a real unified access policy needs to be proposed and polished up utilizing input from multiple people.
I'm also not preaching about how the WKPP is good. I'm merely stating how things operate, good or bad. The purpose of the WKPP isn't to do anything for the 'cave community'. That's not what the Project does (mission statement can be found at the WKPP website). But FWIW, WKPP members do quite a bit, to include guiding at NSS sites and Indian Spring, I was there building the steps at Cathedral alongside members of the NACD and NSS, the new Manatee map was created using data gathered by WKPP team members, even the CDS webmaster is a team diver.
People can dive at permit only sites and still contribute to the greater good of everyone AND be friendly about it. But animosity will get us nowhere.
Edit:
I get my gas from no less than 3 shops on a regular basis. I try to be friendly whenever I see someone at a dive site. The 90s and early 2000s are in the past, and I know a lot of us are trying to make a change for the better.
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Lets work on getting those open after Wakulla and Sally Ward!
The whole point of the letter was to state publicly that divers do not want to harm the animal life and that diving was already going on at Wakulla. Using the WKPP, a group which was founded by people who have since been cast away, as an example of both was a logical option. Especially since I have photo of WKPP divers in the presence of manatee yet the manatee seem to be undisturbed.
The other point is that the WKPP and the affiliated training agency / dive shop / manufacturing company have developed a public image. I fully exploited that image. I don't care what anyone says, the WKPP has unrestricted access to the sinks/springs (on state land) of the Woodville Karst Plain. Yes, there is a paper trail in the form of permits but the WKPP is diving here while the rest of us are practically begging for access. I have had their divers brag to me about them being able to dive Wakulla and no one else can. The elitism needs to end, we can all get along and play nice but not until we have the same access to the sinks that the WKPP has.
I don't mind sharing the cave, why does the WKPP? None of the cave diving public wants to disturb your scientific equipment BTW, yet that continues to be an argument against diving at Wakulla too.
Absolutely!!Lets work on getting those open after Wakulla and Sally Ward!
oh come on. who?
cut the bullshit already
Well Travis, since you don't seem to care about the facts, I don't think there's much anyone can do to convince you otherwise. You admitted to lying/misleading readers in an earlier post in this thread, so hopefully everyone reading this takes that into consideration when forming their own opinions.
If you look at the cave diving community, even subgroups within the CDS/NACD, I think you'll find that sites such as Rose Sink, M2 Blue, Hart Springs, etc have all had efforts to keep them closed by someone on the permit. Maybe it's selfish, maybe it's wanting to see something you've worked so hard to research preserved, maybe it's because they have first hand experience with the dangers and don't want to risk access to other sites if someone under estimates them. I don't like to hypothesize what individuals intentions are.
Frankly I can respect an opposing point of view. My letter stuck to the facts and facts alone, I didn't resort to claiming you'll rape a manatee or saying you will steal a radio beacon. Look at Matt Bull, Kelly Jessop, Ben Martinez, etc's letters or statements, I can respect those. Their conclusions are opposite, but at least they stuck to a different interpretation of the facts. As I'm sure you know, I don't agree, but they're going about it in an ethical way. I think you're running a smear campaign and attempting to bring relations back to where they were in the late 90's or early 00's. Luckily I believe you're in the minority and the vast majority of the cave community hasn't fallen to that level. I hope those people don't change, and we can all work together on later projects that we do agree on, and maybe one day you'll follow their lead.
I'm not sure what his name was but he was at the public meeting.
of course he was...
don't you work at stanton's shop? maybe it was the same guy that taped the ominous note to a tree at harveys that read 'stay out of our caves -WKPP'. another gem from you guys
come on...
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