When Things Go Wrong

[NEON]

Why so rude rjack? What part of my statement do you actually disagree with??? How much I dive has little to do with the nature of this particular discourse - why trying to belittle me?

You might have never been taught much if everyone in the past approached accidents the same way you just did.

Just to make things clear - I do not expect Edd to come over and provide a report.

My understanding is that there were a lot of people present that have a good idea as to what happened but opted to keep their mouths shut. I have always respected families and divers when people got injured or worse. Here we have some bruised egos...

[RN]

Keeping up with students is the most basic skill expected of a cave instructor. At the very least, I would think the agency the instructor was teaching for would demand a report and make it available with names censored. Hopefully they step up.

All agencies have it in their standards that instructors must report incidents they witness or are involved in, so if there was an instructor involved it should be reported. However, I doubt any of the agencies would release a report even with names redacted. It's the same as making a complaint against an employee. The employer might handle it appropriately but they will never tell the complainant how it was handled. It would be interesting to know how an instructor lost students if that is what happened,

[graepaep]

My understanding is that there were a lot of people present that have a good idea as to what happened but opted to keep their mouths shut. I have always respected families and divers when people got injured or worse. Here we have some bruised egos...

I believe it is a wise choice of the individuals with knowledge of the incident but no direct involvement to allow the parties directly involved to step up and offer the details.

If you go back and read this thread you will see accounts of divers who were there but had details wrong. I have heard the story from two people and while the general theme was correct there were differences in the details. Since it is the details that usually get analyzed to death I believe it is prudent to allow someone with the most accurate details to post the information.

I have found the incident analysis section of this forum to be one of the most useful. The reason is that we get to hear first hand what happened to the person involved from the person involved leaving little room for speculation and hearsay. We have a not so common chance here to learn.

[CindyLou777]

As a newcomer to this beautiful underwater world and in the infancy of learning, I feel I am in a position of mercy (somewhat) to those who have the experience and knowledge and desire to teach me. This relationship is based on an enormous amount of trust, not only with me and the instructor but also with the organization that puts their stamp on the instructors card.. If the instructor is at fault in this occurrence and/or any other . HOW WOULD I FIND THE INFORMATION..OF COURSE I WANT THE BEST FOR ME!! If an organization should cover such a incident up....WTF!!! After reading the threads this is CERTAINLY A REAL concern for me.

I commend you Edd...what color life saver are you?

[Benderr]

It would be interesting to know how an instructor lost students if that is what happened.

Agreed. I'm not so interested in naming names or airing someone else's dirty laundry, but I'd really like to know what led up to a separation, and what happened between then, and the point that it was decided to go for help.

If nothing else, three people owe Edd a steak dinner...

[cmufieldhockey8]

or a prime rib dinner with chocolate cake

[rjack]

In this case, I would expect a few more days to hear a complete analysis, but I think that we need to be understanding of those that show frustration at how recent accidents have been dealt with.

As much as I'd like to have some sort of accident analysis, I can't blame people for not wanting to air their flaws, mistakes, oversights, whatever on the internet. If someone wants to share, great. If not, I am not upset that I'm missing some crucial secret piece of information here which is the difference between my own life and death. Demanding or expecting that people open up their failed dive to public monday morning quarterbacking is just plain rude.

It seems to me that regardless of how the incident was caused, our who was a fault, it happened. I am quite content to assume that either someone made a mistake or rules were broken for this to occur. I do not think that an accident analysis will do anything to change my diving or my approach to it.

Exactly, I don't think anything about this is going to change the basic rules here. If instructors want to privately share their issues and strategies for maintaining control of their classes that's probably a good thing.

[NEON]

So expecting a statement from a training agency or merely a report of what could have been done to avoid a potentially fatal accident strikes you as rude but covering it all up is just fine???

I think it was this discrete private sharing of information that Sheck once busted with The Blueprint for Survival as it did little good to the community.

Times have changed, sadly...

[FW]

Times have changed, sadly...

What has sadly changed is the existence of the internet. Before the internet, we usually didn't even know there was an accident for days, and analysis was left up to people like Sheck Exley, who published a book years after the accidents.

This childish stomping of the foot, and saying "I want it NOW" will not do anything but make the situation worse. It has gotten to the point that anyone involved with an accident will never say a word, for fear they will be flamed for weeks or even years afterward.

[RN]

As a newcomer to this beautiful underwater world and in the infancy of learning, I feel I am in a position of mercy (somewhat) to those who have the experience and knowledge and desire to teach me. This relationship is based on an enormous amount of trust, not only with me and the instructor but also with the organization that puts their stamp on the instructors card.. If the instructor is at fault in this occurrence and/or any other . HOW WOULD I FIND THE INFORMATION..OF COURSE I WANT THE BEST FOR ME!! If an organization should cover such a incident up....WTF!!! After reading the threads this is CERTAINLY A REAL concern for me.

I don't know of any reputable agency that would cover up an incident. The agencies I teach through would handle a situation according to policy and local laws. They have no obligation to make any of this public though.