Cow Springs Access Restrictions for Conservation, Safety, Accessibility

[Line Squirrel]

Well then you might as well not have any acces restrictions at all, if you're going with that line of thinking.

That was my point.

[SuPrBuGmAn]

So then take it all the way to the "obviously ridiculous" level just to play devil’s advocate...why restrict access to full cave, why not O/W and let each individual decide if their skill set is adequate?

Is it though? Its apparent that even non-diving locals use Cow as a swimming hole(or worse) despite the best efforts to keep them out with additional fences, gates, signage, ect.

[mdax]

As nss-cds members couldn't we ask for changes to the access policy be revised to include all divers must be 1. only nsscds members 2. only those with abe davis awards and ask the bod/membership to vote on it?
Is this type of thing something only the bod would vote on or the membership in general?

[TONY CHANEY]

You know Mat, at first I was not going to reply but hell I simply could not help myself. I voted that you should have prior experience. I truly feel no one should dive here without someone to show you the system and how to dive it. I could have voted to have an Abe Davis awarded diver on the team. Both I already have. Now the sad part is that you thinking that when I posted that you no longer have to have an Abe Davis to dive Cow you took it as me saying I voted for no experience required or other. And as far as stating, "Conservation be dammed, open the flood gates" is just pure BS. Heck even your bubbles leave an impact on the cave. So maybe rebreather only? The only way to properly apply conservation is to put a gate over it and allow no one to enter the cave...ever. Much like that cave in Texas if I remember correctly.

[skip]

As nss-cds members couldn't we ask for changes to the access policy be revised to include all divers must be 1. only nsscds members 2. only those with abe davis awards and ask the bod/membership to vote on it?
Is this type of thing something only the bod would vote on or the membership in general?

I've read through the bylaws and saw nothing about how voting takes place (other than voting for BoD members). however, there is stuff about how a petition signed by 10% of the membership requires the BoD to act on the petition within 45 days of receiving it. Whether the "act on" part means they vote or put it to membership vote is not stated. I suppose if the petition included something about membership voting, then that's how it would be.

another way would be to draft a proposal and submit it in writing to the BoD to be placed on the agenda of the next meeting. members can show up and be heard, but a written proposal is preferred prior to the meeting. If a group of members showed up all wanting the same changes, I'm sure the BoD would listen, discuss, and decide the best course of action to take.

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[SuPrBuGmAn]

Now the sad part is that you thinking that when I posted that you no longer have to have an Abe Davis to dive Cow you took it as me saying I voted for no experience required or other.

I wonder why I would think that?

There really is another way to looking at the poll: 49% voted for Ab Davis required
40% voted for prior experience
10% voted for at least one diver with Ab Davis
Considereing that I have been there several times and our team has an Ab Davis diver that makes us a 50% of the votes...not the 10%.

Could it be nonsensicle posts like this are hard to comprehend?

And as far as stating, "Conservation be dammed, open the flood gates" is just pure BS. Heck even your bubbles leave an impact on the cave. So maybe rebreather only? The only way to properly apply conservation is to put a gate over it and allow no one to enter the cave...ever. Much like that cave in Texas if I remember correctly.

The previous Abe Davis rule was put into place for conservation reasons, its already apparent that the cave is showing signs of bad diving(and not from bubbles). Get your head out of the ground.

... and the cave in TX, with the grate, was dove an awefull lot last month apparently.

[TONY CHANEY]

I wonder why I would think that?

I have always enjoyed your pictures from the surface, explanation of removing old line and placing new line as well as other advice but now you are being a PITA. Considering that you do not know me I would guess 1) your desire to take things to the worst case situation or 2) all divers have not acquired the great diving ability that you have achieved. Where did you start and what caves did you dive, during your first 100 dives, to gain your great superiority? Sounds like my past days of surfing, “My waves, My beach, Go home, Locals only.”

[PfcAJ]

The NSS CDS owns a handful of sites. ALL the rest are not. Is it too much to ask that the very few the NSS-CDS owns (3 or 4?) be limited to people with experience for the sake of conservation? Its not about who lives where, its about keeping a very small number of sites pristine so that others can enjoy them when the time comes.

[fno]

As a clarification of my previous statement, another post.... The percieved liability only comes from the fact that the CDS is currently for the last two years operating Cow with no requirement for proof of 100 cave dives at the Dive Outpost. This is considered in legal terms as being inconsistent with the Management Plan and would put the CDS in a court of law as acting inconstently and not following the plan as written. Not advisable is what the lawyers tell us. Now to changing the plan, please direct all requests for change to me along with your NSS-CDS name and number. I will compile them before the next BoD meeting along with a written request to have an agenda item added in. This has been done before and worked out just fine. If the board is aware of what even appears to be a majority of membership wanting a change and that change is consistent with the Constitution and By-Laws at the time, then it gets voted on and usually done. There is nothing complicated or secrective about this process and it is far more efficient than bitching about issues on CDF. As always, my phone is almost always on and I am available to discuss any aspect NSS-CDS with other members.

Best regards, Frank Ohidy, Program Director, NSS-CDS

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I have always enjoyed your pictures from the surface, explanation of removing old line and placing new line as well as other advice but now you are being a PITA. Considering that you do not know me I would guess 1) your desire to take things to the worst case situation or 2) all divers have not acquired the great diving ability that you have achieved. Where did you start and what caves did you dive, during your first 100 dives, to gain your great superiority? Sounds like my past days of surfing, “My waves, My beach, Go home, Locals only.”

Read into things too much?