Purchasing catheters with a FSA?

[kwinter]

Wow.

As someone who spent a career in
public accounting including time in the ethics department of a Big Six firm, I will give my opinion that DA (Larry) is pretty much right on target. Cases can always be made for things on the fringes of the law that may violate only the spirit rather than the letter of the law. Those are called loopholes, and they are what some tax accountants and lawyers get paid big bucks to find. But that does not make them ethical, and very often the line is crossed into illegal. While the chances of being caught may be low and the penalties involved usually toothless, let's not confuse "getting away with something" with "its legitimate."

One more thing to add to those trying to make a case that condom caths for diving should be considered preventive medicine, I suffered a terrible and serious UTI once when my tubing kinked. That medical problem would not have existed without the pee valve. So please stop trying to convince yourself that the condoms help with hydration. You could dive wet and pee all you want. Your drysuit may keep you warmer and therefore avoid pneumonia, but that doesn't make it medically necessary or deductible.

[RN]

Playing devil's advocate.

Not emptying your bladder increases the risk of a urinary tract infection. The longer you hold it the higher the risk. Other associated risks - bladder spasm and weakened sphincter. All of these issues require medical care so preventing them is actually money saving for the insurance company. Medical care for any of the issues associated with not emptying your bladder costs much more than a case of condoms.

for the record, I don't even have an FSA.

[scuba_shark_fart]

Anyone know if purchasing catheters is an approved expense for a FSA? I haven't been to the doctor this year, so I have $$$ I need to burn off of it that I will lose Jan 2012.

I found this link which doesn't specify-
https://www.healthhub.com/MyDashboar...pensesOTC.aspx

And then this link which are prohibited expenses, not on there either
https://www.healthhub.com/MyDashboar...pensesOTC.aspx

I work in the clerical portion of the medical field, and often times I deal with insurances and FSA's/HSA's. There's alway a loop hole to be found, wether or not ethics play a role in decision making or not.
You'll need proof of purchase and an order (or rx) from your doc explaining why said product is medically necessary, which I think may be a little hard to obtain in this case...
Very interesting idea though... :-P

[kwinter]

Playing devil's advocate.

Not emptying your bladder increases the risk of a urinary tract infection. The longer you hold it the higher the risk. Other associated risks - bladder spasm and weakened sphincter. All of these issues require medical care so preventing them is actually money saving for the insurance company. Medical care for any of the issues associated with not emptying your bladder costs much more than a case of condoms.

for the record, I don't even have an FSA.

Not true. Urine is normally sterile unless an outside agent is introduced. That's what a catheter, tubing and pee valve do. Unless there is already an underlying infection, holding it in might be uncomfortable but should not increase the risk of UTI. And there's nothing to say you can't just pee in your drysuit. But if you do in order to avoid infection, I guess the cleaning bill should be deductible according to your logic.

[mdax]

I disagree completely with the language used towards jj here. It's HIS money that is put into an fsa account in order to avoid payroll and other taxes as the money is to be used for a medical purpose.
HIS earned money that the government then picks at in order to spend like drunken sailors, money that is used for all sorts of purposes that some consider immoral to begin with...it's ethically wrong to roll over and hand the government whatever they feel they "deserve"...fight for your money using the tax code, nothing unethical about that at all!
Introducing the concept of morality relating to taxes just starts a whole new debate in my opinion.

[roguediver]

morality and taxes? thats one of them OX- Morons is it not?

[Jaydubya]

The real problem is the stupid tax code and the use-it-or-lose-it nature of the FSA. I don't find it unethical at all to use your own money, which is what's in the FSA. The ethical question, in my mind, comes when deciding whether to keep the tax break. I say go ahead and use your money and if you have moral qualms about it you can add back the amount under miscellaneous income on your tax return so that you are not claiming a tax break that you don't "deserve." As always, consult your tax advisor before taking any action

[T. Bix]

I disagree completely with the language used towards jj here. It's HIS money that is put into an fsa account in order to avoid payroll and other taxes as the money is to be used for a medical purpose.
HIS earned money that the government then picks at in order to spend like drunken sailors, money that is used for all sorts of purposes that some consider immoral to begin with...it's ethically wrong to roll over and hand the government whatever they feel they "deserve"...fight for your money using the tax code, nothing unethical about that at all!
Introducing the concept of morality relating to taxes just starts a whole new debate in my opinion.

I'm inclined to agree. It's money that you earned! Use it or lose it blows.... What happens to the money after you lose it? is that then money that the government "earned"? So you avoid paying taxes on a very small sum of money that you earned.... If it makes you feel better make an equivalent contribution to a veterans charity and don't claim it. I give, volunteer, and donate lots of time money and resources that I don't claim and don't feel a bit bad about exploiting the crooked tax code to keep some of the money that I earned to donate or do with it as I see fit.

[Jaydubya]

I'm inclined to agree. It's money that you earned! Use it or lose it blows.... What happens to the money after you lose it? is that then money that the government "earned"? So you avoid paying taxes on a very small sum of money that you earned.... If it makes you feel better make an equivalent contribution to a veterans charity and don't claim it. I give, volunteer, and donate lots of time money and resources that I don't claim and don't feel a bit bad about exploiting the crooked tax code to keep some of the money that I earned to donate or do with it as I see fit.

I wonder who keeps the money that you don't spend? I know someone who in the mid 1990s elected to put 5k into her plan (the max at the time), had elective surgery in Feb and left the company in March. I have no reason to believe she intended to do this, but she got a huge windfall- 5k out with about 1200 in. Someone (her former company? the plan administrator? dunno) was left holding the bag on that one. But that's how the FSA plan works, or how they worked at that time.

I think the whole tax code is silly (and economically inefficient).

[kwinter]

I couldn't disagree more. When you buy stock, you do so with the hope that it's value will increase, but there is no guarantee. If you want to reap the reward of an increase, you have to also assume the risk of a decrease. No crying foul when you get a bad outcome. No one made him contribute anything to his FSA. He wanted the benefit of using pretax dollars, but he also had to assume the risk of losing it if it wasn't spent. He knew the rules going in, and it is ridiculous to expect the rules to change just because he didn't have the expenses he anticipated. Complaining about the rules is fine before he made the contribution, but not after. He was informed, and that's all that matters.

If I buy life insurance, do I have the right to demand my premium back at the end of the year just because I didn't die? Its like anything else in life. If you don't like the risk, don't play the game. But don't look for support if you want to cheat because you didn't win.

Those who feel that it is ok to cheat because the setup wasn't fair to begin with are a big part of the problem, not the solution. He was willing to "exploit the crooked tax code" to his benefit by using pretax dollars to pay the expenses. Now he wants to change the game and exploit it another way because he didn't like the outcome. Please don't try to make anything noble or justifiable out of this. He put his money down and took his chances. He lost. Lesson learned. Don't put any more into the FSA than you absolutely know you are going to spend.

And for those who think the rules are stacked in the government's favor, you should know one of the provisions related to HSAs is that you have the entire annual amount available to you at the beginning of the year, even if you stop making contributions because your employment is terminated. If you elect to contribute $1,000 for the year and have a large medical expense in January, you can claim the full $1,000 for reimbursement. If you quit the next week, you don't have to make up the difference. That would be exploiting a loophole in a legal way.