Support the opening of Wakulla Springs

[Line Squirrel]

But presumably the State makes money overall from its State Parks. (Taking account of Hotels.meals,gas etc.etc)

The overwhelming majority of Florida state parks lose money. Entry fees, camping fees, etc. are hardly enough to make all but a couple the largest parks self sustaining. The additional funds necessary to keep the rest open are subsidized buy tax dollars.

[Wizard]

The parks almost never make money, that is not their purpose.
They DRAW people in to spend money at area businesses.
Same deal as a large city hosting a ballgame or large event.
It cost them money but the area makes big money for a week.

[Line Squirrel]

They DRAW people in to spend money at area businesses.

Agreed & I think that was the same point ianr33 was trying to make but I missed it at first.

[ianr33]

I'll forgive you!

[RN]

You are wrong. I looked into the faces of the decision-makers, and saw when they perked up the most. There are other CONCERNS, but demonstrating that we bring more money into Florida, and not just to the park, but to the hotels, restaurants, and dive shops, THAT is what they were most interested in. They already know that divers won't affect swimmers, and that boat routes can be tweaked to allow sharing of the resources.

Wakulla gets a lot of tourism from non-divers. We need to show that cave diving won't have the effect the opposition says it will and, in turn, not lose money from a drop in the segment of tourism.

Yes, we already went over this. It was also in a presentation to the decision makers, and in individual letters sent to the decision makers, and to letters to the editor, local meetings with other stakeholders, etc.

A form letter, is just that. It is for people who care enough to buy a stamp, and register their opinion in writing. It is MEANT to be broad and vague, as someone from Finland can't vote in Florida, and someone in Crawfordville won't be bringing out-of-state money to spend, or staying at a hotel. People who REALLY care about the issue should take the time to write a personal letter, but I think it's best to stick to certain topics. The simplest argument is always the strongest.

This has been tried already and didn't do anything.

If you hate the form letter so much, post your own. If you have scientific evidence that divers won't molest swimmers, murder manatees or require rescue helicopters that may interfere with the lodge's ability to sell t-shirts, then I'm totally open to getting it in front of Parks/DEP.



First you complain about no research, now you say it isn't going to do anything to prepare for something like this. Which is it?

You missed the point again. Months is not enough. It will take more than a few months of research.

Yes, I was talking to cave divers. They are clearly the wrong people to talk to about opening a cave diving site. The only thing worse than a cave diver, is a cave diving organization, which is really just an assembly of cave divers. I also talked to a lobbyist. He wanted money I didn't have to give us suggestions on advancing the cause. I wrenched as much free info out of that guy as I could, but if you want to write him a check, I'll go find his business card.

You were talking to the wrong cave divers.

Good! Just don't step on my toes in the process. Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

Have you stopped to think that you may be the one stepping on someone else's toes with this effort?

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I think the absolute biggest problem with everyone's individual campaigns is that nobody is working together. Its no wonder we're not taken seriously.

[Benderr]

I think the absolute biggest problem with everyone's individual campaigns is that nobody is working together. Its no wonder we're not taken seriously.

Sadly, there are individual divers, and several cave diving organizations that have significant interests in PREVENTING Wakulla from opening. Obviously you don't want those folks/groups involved with your campaign, and divers have big mouths, so it's a strategic decision (at least on my part, and for my part) when I keep my cards close to the vest. Honestly, I see this particular discussion as counter productive, and perhaps I'm taking some of it too personally, but for the hard work, no one raises their hands to help... On the other hand plenty of folks want to come in at the 11th hour and talk about how things are being done incorrectly. If someone wants to help, then raise your hand. Monday morning quarterbacks can stay on the couch.

The point you're missing is this isn't about money. The arguments have to do with interfering with other interests. We need to study those interests and show how cave diving won't interfere with them. No one is doing that here. The proposed letter states we want to dive Wakulla and should be able to. Nothing about how allowing diving will not have a negative impact as the opponents belive it will, and why it won't have a negative impact. Months of research isn't going to do anything to prepare for something like this.

Dude. Were you in the meeting with Parks/DEP? Because I don't remember seeing you there.

The decision makers were particularly interested in the financial part of the two presentations that were made. I've spelled out, in detail, the concerns the decision makers have. Please re-read my posts. Parks/DEP doesn't believe we're stabbing manatees, sabotaging boats, or molesting swimmers.

* They don't want us killing ourselves en mass
* They don't want us picking up mastodon fangs
* They don't want the bother or expense of managing our access
* They don't want the political hit from the old ladies club if they let us in

If you're getting a lot of negative feedback from people you talk to then you're talking to the wrong people.

I seem to be getting a lot of negative feedback from you.

There are many of us that want Wakulla open. We are just approaching it differently.

Knock yourself out, we need letters to the various groups who may benefit from diving at Wakulla. I talk to the managers/owners at restaurants when I'm in Crawfordville. I tell them I'm a diver working on access, and that if we get it, I'm bringing my deep-pocketed, gluttonous friends back to eat in his restaurant, but I can only eat at so many places, and I'm a food snob, so I stay away from chains if I can, I did the same thing at the hotel. We need business folk interested in our dollars.

Get a list together of business addresses for places that divers would frequent on their surface intervals, draft a form letter or outline for interested folks, so they can let business owners know we have money and want to come spend it. A single letter with many signatures on it may have the same impact, though I would include everyones home town, as out-of-town dollars are more important that dollars from folks that live in the area anyway.

Wakulla gets a lot of tourism from non-divers. We need to show that cave diving won't have the effect the opposition says it will and, in turn, not lose money from a drop in the segment of tourism.

We've already presented them with statistics on divers killing manatees vs. boats killing manatees. They have copies of three different studies that highlight the positive financial impact of diving on local communities. Two of the studies specifically on cave diving, and one of those specifically in the Wakulla area. We've already given them average retail expenditures on three levels of cave diving training and equipment. We've already given them specific examples of divers interacting, without conflict, with swimmers and manatees. We've given them examples of cave diving at other state and county parks, which is silly, because some of the decision makers had extensive experience with the cave diving community at Peacock, and generally held the community in high regard. We've already offered to collect artifacts under the supervision of scientists, or to assist scientists in their collection of artifacts, We've already offered to work out management plans for safety, access, artifact preservation. We've offered to build steps, walkways, benches, missile silos, graven images of Rick Scott, whatever.

If you want to put all of those things in your letter, then be my guest. The four issues in bold above (and the money issue) are the ones that are most important. I say this because I was in the meeting with Parks/DEP, and I actually paid attention to what they said.

This has been tried already and didn't do anything.

I'll repeat myself once again: It got us an in-person meeting with Parks/DEP, It got us a safety dive/survey at Wakulla Spring.

You missed the point again. Months is not enough. It will take more than a few months of research.

I'm not missing your points. You are refusing to understand the elements of this conflict. I have repeated them once again in this post. After you have your meeting with Parks/DEP, get back with me on what research needs to be done, and I'll do my best to pitch in.

You were talking to the wrong cave divers.

Clearly

Have you stopped to think that you may be the one stepping on someone else's toes with this effort?

Please tell me, specifically, what these other people are doing. Because so far, the only other action I've seen has been foot-dragging, poo-pooing, and Monday morning quarterbacking.

The principles I've worked with have:

* Secured and attended a meeting with Parks/DEP
* Met with Parks/DEP for a safety dive at Wakulla
* Pressed for a public hearing with Parks/DEP on the Wakulla matter

I really, really want to know what these "other" folks are up to.

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I've said all that needs to be said... more than once. I really, really, really appreciate all the folks that have sent in letters to state officials. Despite what some people say, they ARE helpful, and they do result in forward movement. Please keep sending them in, and please, if you can, attend the Public Meeting on Thursday, January 19, 2012 7:00 p.m. (ET).

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Have you been to Spring Creek Restraunt yet? Friggin awesome, nearly as good as Angelo's... nearly.







Now I'm hungry.


























Lets face it, I'm always hungry.

[Benderr]

Have you been to Spring Creek Restraunt yet? Friggin awesome, nearly as good as Angelo's... nearly.

Now I'm hungry.

Lets face it, I'm always hungry.

Angelo's, Spring Creek, The Mexican place on the main drag, and Tasty Take Out. All beyond my expectations. I have dreams at night about how good the food is in that area.

I have to say that Angelo's is my favorite. I have to close my eyes when I eat that food, it's soooo good. I could seriously injure myself eating at that place.

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Tasty Take Out shut down :/


There's an awesome food truck on the corner of Hwy98 and Crawfordville Highway, next to the gas station, that does cajun food. Da Cajun Wagon, its pretty fantastic actually.