Some CCR help

[crpearson]

Rebreathers are magical devices that will let you stay underwater for nearly as long as you like, constantly blend the perfect gas for your given depth, and dramatically shorten decompression time -- when they work. They can (and do) fail, however, and when they do, they often do so silently.

When you have a failure on OC, it's generally very obvious. Bubbles are blowing everywhere, you can't get gas our of your reg, or something of the like. With a rebreather, failures are often a lot more subtle, a lot more silent, and a hell of a lot more insidious. If unnoticed, the diver simply continues along happily breathing until he falls asleep, never to wake up. Sheck once said something along the lines of "I survive by constantly thinking of the cave as a fickle friend who is trying to work out ways of killing me". I like to take the same approach to rebreather diving, and with the help of some of the world's greatest rebreather divers, I have learned a number of tools to constantly check the system for sanity. it takes a lot of concentration though. I'm doing math in my head, maintaining a less than perfectly comfortable loop volume, and generally thinking at least as much about my rig as I am about enjoying my dive. I'm an engineer, so admittedly the technical and analytical aspects have some appeal to me, but I'd be lying if I said some of the enjoyment of the actual dive was not lost because of the increased task loading.

As others have said, unless you're doing big trimix dives daily you're unlikely to save any money buying a rebreather. In the end, for me the decision was not as much about cost as it was a risk assessment. For me, caves were always the end game and I find that with proper bailout, having a rebreather in a cave removes time pressure and adds to my feeling of comfort. I'm not doing any super long or deep dives but I like knowing that I will have time to deal with problems should they come up.

That said, some recent rebreather fatalities involving divers much better than myself has me rethinking things a bit. Anyhow, that's been my experience for what it's worth. I don't think there is a wrong decision. Each approach has its merits and drawbacks. Good luck in your decision.

[Dsix36]

Nope, I was being serious. I think they are a gimmicky piece of crap. The smiley face was for Paul Raymakers, he always gets mad whenever I bring up the flaws on his unit (which are more than most) besides the Optima.

I dive a rEvo and definitely think that there are a couple of flaws in the design of it. I still think it is the best RB for me and have now got it setup perfectly for me. I see no reason to switch, since there is nothing that comes close to a rEvo (yes, my personal opinion). I would be very interested to hear exactly what flaws you think it has, since you say it has more than most.

I think that about the only really common problem with the optima was the electronics. That is after they got rid of the original plastic backplate that was flimsy and would crack.

[silentscuba]

Nope, I was being serious. I think they are a gimmicky piece of crap. The smiley face was for Paul Raymakers, he always gets mad whenever I bring up the flaws on his unit (which are more than most) besides the Optima.

Clearly, you are not dealing in facts and do not know what you are talking about (my opinion). You always have a right to your opinion but when you start stating facts, you better be in a postion to back it up with real factual information or be ready to get flammed !!!

[Superlyte27]

Lots of posts about cost...like cave diving is such a cheap sport....

Take a look at the dives you want to do then decide if CCR is the way to go. Also your style of diving. Just curious but if you are not CCR qualified why do you already want to be a CCR instructor? I got my OW instructor cert and I've DM'd a lot for tech diving classes at all levels and I would never be a tech instructor 1) those guys are way smarter than I am 2) there is no way I have enough patience to work through some of the dorked up issues tech students have. Take that to the CCR level and...

Me personally I feel safer in the overhead environment on CCR just because if something goes totally crazy I have time to deal with it. Look at most cave double fatalities, one guy gets lost the other searches until they are out of gas or turn to late and run out of gas on the way out (failure on the divers part yes but it happens a lot more than it should anyway) which is pretty hard to do CCR. I can think of a few other situations where time would be helpful. On the other side CCRs do bring their own set of risks and require a little more time to take care of overall.

It's hard to answer your questions in the few sentences i'm willing to type. But one of your questions you answered yourself... I want time that simply isn't offered in OC. The answer to the other question is a bit more complex. In short, CCR is the fastest growing avenue in scuba in decades. No offense to the old greats who are instructing, but they are old. They are going to be retiring soon, and there needs to be people there to replace them. I want to be one of those people.

[jcook]

Clearly, you are not dealing in facts and do not know what you are talking about (my opinion). You always have a right to your opinion but when you start stating facts, you better be in a postion to back it up with real factual information or be ready to get flammed !!!

We did go over this on TDS, your 5 or 6 cells in your rEvo that you say give you 2 TOTALLY redundant ppO2 monitors is completely false. We established that all the cells are in the same location, so if one starts giving you problems which one do you know to trust? For another, what is the water trapping tolerance for the unit? If your water goes into the counter lungs your cells and sorb are shot, and for those who said you finished a dive with a gallon of water in your CLs you are just foolish. Plus no OPV, dumping through the DSV if you have to bail off the unit?! That's way too much task loading under stress.

Again please tell me how I am not knowledgeable about the rEvo. You want to know why I am, I almost bought a rEvo when during my exhaustive search to buy the perfect unit (I know that is questionable either way). Plus I have friends who dive them, so I have heard their shortcomings straight from the horses mouth.

[silentscuba]

We did go over this on TDS, your 5 or 6 cells in your rEvo that you say give you 2 TOTALLY redundant ppO2 monitors is completely false. We established that all the cells are in the same location, so if one starts giving you problems which one do you know to trust? For another, what is the water trapping tolerance for the unit? If your water goes into the counter lungs your cells and sorb are shot, and for those who said you finished a dive with a gallon of water in your CLs you are just foolish. Plus no OPV, dumping through the DSV if you have to bail off the unit?! That's way too much task loading under stress.

Again please tell me how I am not knowledgeable about the rEvo. You want to know why I am, I almost bought a rEvo when during my exhaustive search to buy the perfect unit (I know that is questionable either way). Plus I have friends who dive them, so I have heard their shortcomings straight from the horses mouth.

I have a 6 cell system and each 3 cell system is electronically independent of each other, if you loose one system, you have a backup, this is called redundency. Just like any rebreather, if you have a complete flood that gets to your cells then you will loose all your systems.

The water trapping on the rEvo is tolerable in the real world of diving as stated by a lot of people and is not an issue. It is not as good as a front mounted system because you cannot dewater it but that is a none issue just like some rebreathers not having redundent cell systems.

No one has ever said I finished a dive with a gallon of water in my rEvo, I have never had a flood, again, you are making a statement that is not true.

All rEvo's have an OPV so what are you talking about, it is normal rebreather bail out proceedure to dump excess loop volume through your DSV when assending on a bailout, so what's your point ?

There is no perfect rebreather and they all have shortcomings, including the rEvo. I have heard about the shortcomings of all the mainstream rebreathers directly from the people that owned them so what's your point ??

As they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

We will just have to agree to disagree and time to move on, no sense in beating this to death

[Superlyte27]

So about $7 per hour huh?

[sea2summit]

Plus no OPV, dumping through the DSV if you have to bail off the unit?! That's way too much task loading under stress.

If dumping through the DSV while bailing off the unit is too much of a task load I'm not sure if you are qualified to critique any unit. Not to mention rEvos are supplied with an OPV so you mist be looking at a modified unit...not that I ever use it because my nose can fine tine loop volume much easier and more accurately than using an OPV. As for your other points your right their gimmicky, not because it's a gimmck but your arguing about somethig that has pros and cons between units. What is the "perfect" unit you dive?

[Attchoum]

But if your type of diving needs one then you really can't do without it.

I really don't agree with that. You can choose to dive a rebreather because you feel more comfortable diving that way. You don't need to go deep to enjoy the advantage of a good working unit. For some people (like me) been on a rebreather is a joy by itself... then you add the joy of the dive.

A RB is not just another piece of gear, but a completely new underwater paradigm shift.

I do agree with that one, it's a other way to dive. Enjoy it on all your dive, not just the super deep/far dive.


About the rEvo good or bad point, I did not found any rebreather that have more advantage that the rEvo or less flaw. It's a amazing unit really powerful and I'm really proud to be a Instructor for it.

[RAL]

http://www.diverssupplyinc.net/searc...imageField.y=0

RAL