Untrained cave diving in the DR

[deepairmike]

Curt,
You were very careful on your wording... "expedition contacts" not expedition members.
From reading your DR report and looking at the OW dive video, one of your DR expedition team members was the guide from Gri Gri who took the OW divers on their cave dive. Looks like he is one of your ADM contributors and a possible co-owner of Gri Gri.

That was how long ago???? Not today....

[Bobby]

Curt,
You were very careful on your wording... "expedition contacts" not expedition members.
From reading your DR report and looking at the OW dive video, one of your DR expedition team members was the guide from Gri Gri who took the OW divers on their cave dive. Looks like he is one of your ADM contributors and a possible co-owner of Gri Gri.

DaveP,
I have known Curt for a rather good bit. One thing I know absolutely is that he is neither careful nor accurate when talking on the boards. He honestly does not give it any worry and only puts in his fragmented bits. TBH he and I are a bit on the outs right now over how well he deals with his own board, that he owns, much less this board. My point is that he is not hiding anything, has no dog in this fight, and is only trying to help. So lets not alienate someone that may actually have some influence and be able to help Phillip out. He has sent an email and that is a big thing for someone of Curt's stature.

If I might suggest we all need to keep our eye on the objective. Phillip has taken up a worthy cause in trying to keep not only diving safe but also keep cave diving open in the DR. I appreciate and admire his efforts and IMO we should be doing what we can to contribute to his efforts even if it is only in supporting them.

Phillip,
Keep up the good work!!!

[phillip1]

Thanks a lot but I cannot take all the credit for the safety effort in the DR it is a joint effort with everyone in the DRSS not just me, I am just the most persistent and annoying member..lol

[Curt Bowen]

Curt,
You were very careful on your wording... "expedition contacts" not expedition members.
From reading your DR report and looking at the OW dive video, one of your DR expedition team members was the guide from Gri Gri who took the OW divers on their cave dive. Looks like he is one of your ADM contributors and a possible co-owner of Gri Gri.

Dave. How about chiming in when you have one fact correct. Just one is all we ask. Thus far your batting a big zero.
Or better yet, with all your worldly cave diving enfluance, how about you send all the shops in the DR a personal email and ask them to stop.

That's it Philip, now all you problems are solved. Thanks Dave, your the greatest.....

[DaveP]

What did I get wrong?

[Curt Bowen]

What did I get wrong?

Only everything, but that's ok, you were not there on my last expedition 1.5 years ago.

[DaveP]

Is Mark not listed as one of your expedition members in the DR article? was he on the OW divers dive? is he listed as an ADM contributor? what did I get wrong?

[Curt Bowen]

Is Mark not listed as one of your expedition members in the DR article? was he on the OW divers dive? is he listed as an ADM contributor? what did I get wrong?

Date and time, it's amazing, yes editorials are dated. Sheck Exley was also a expedition team member and just yesterday we went to the moon...

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Sheck Exley was also a expedition team member and just yesterday we went to the moon...

Did it go?

[Jim Coke]

Phillip,

We started by prohibiting any air fills or rental tanks from leaving the dive shops on the inland side. The person who wanted to rent or have tanks filled had to show a cert card. If you could not produce a cavern-cave card, we would not allow the tanks to go inland (unless we knew them personally). This worked fairly well after a little grumbling by dive shop owners and clients. The dive shop owners were the easiest to convince. Who wants their tank (w/dive shop markings) to be found on a corpse in an underwater cave? The cops usually confiscated all the dive gear anyway... Having investigative cops mingling with clients at your business, is clearly uncomfortable business.

Many LDS owners became cave certified as they watched what we did (full cave certified guide, on-site lecture including hand signals, basic rules and procedures, etc.). Some owners became cave instructors and trained their employees. We also trained some of their guides on occasion. It took about 5 years for this to become the accepted norm.

Aside from all the political history in the area, the land owners finally caught on, especially after a few deaths. Money is much easier to make when there are no problems. As a further development, an organization that was meant to represent the LDS community required cave certified cavern guides. It was at this time that the MX government began to regulate both tourist open water and cavern activities (conducted by a legal dive business). After all, there are Federal taxes to levy on this tourist activity.

So from start to finish, it took nearly 8 years to get the QRoo cavern tour business in line. No one is happy that this history is sprinkled with a few casualties, both tourists and locals. This cavern tour business is something you need to figure out for the DR. You are most familiar with the area. I would not worry too much over the overall future of DR cave diving in respect to diving accidents. Yes some idiots may create rather tense episodes. I doubt anyone will shut down access to a potential taxable goldmine. All they need to do is make an example of the offending dive facility or landowner. That will get everyone else in line. Hopefully you will avoid this scenario.

I'd still keep your options open for now. Most of the big guns at PADI, NAUI and SSI are cave trained so they know the mantra.

Jim