certification ?

[argyris]

For cave class or for becoming an instructor? Gary Taylor is the current PSAI president. He came from IANTD, so the current standards are very similar to IANTD. As for becoming an instructor, PSAI has the lowest standards I've seen out of all the agencies.

I completely disagree.

[fno]

I would weight my decisions on this ratio: 20%/Agency and 80% on the instructor. The key questions you may want to ask ( it is perfectly acceptable to interview a potential instructor) are: do you cave dive recreationally outside of instruction?, do you do exploration?, do you participate in conservation efforts? The other step is to get references and ask the same questions and more. Not every instructor has the same style or method and it should fit with your needs and expectations (which will most likely change over time) I also recommend the use of more than one instructor thru the process from cavern to full cave. That being said, training standards are not intended to and do not guarantee a good education in cave diving. They are there to minimize liablity, create a consistent curriculum, and make sure that after training is completed, the newly minted cave diver hopefully does not go forth and kill themselves. I do not expect a further discussion of training standards amongst the different agencies to be of any benefit to the original poster.

Frank Ohidy.

[ffdiver5597]

I disagree, aside from the "not the agency, it's the instructor" argument, which a few people already mentioned, there are minor sometimes major differences between the training standards which should be mentioned.

Take NAUI cave 1 and NACD intro standards and that's a really big difference. If you can find an instructor that teaches both, the agency you choose becomes more important.

[chimie007]

Take NAUI cave 1 and NACD intro standards and that's a really big difference.

Of course because you need to compare NAUI Cave 1 to the Apprentice level which is the closest level that compares.

That said, it shows that it is confusing comparing training courses. Also some courses have the same name but are not the same level (such as GUE and NAUI Cave 1).

I say instructor's experiences is most important. I prefer to stay with well known agencies since there are instructors coming up with their own training agency.

[tomhauburn]

Looking at your location of Nowhere now leaves questions. At least you did not put down Toyota like one of our friends...lol

Hijacked thread can now resume......

[ffdiver5597]

Of course because you need to compare NAUI Cave 1 to the Apprentice level which is the closest level that compares.

As a cavern diver looking to further your cave training you have to compare the Cave 1 to intro level. It all depends how far you want to go into your training at the time. Instead of taking 3 classes like intro, apprentice and full, you could do Cave 1 & 2. It makes a difference. I wouldn't go as far to say that I will pick an instructor based on the agency but if I have a few choices of cards to get and each having their own standards, I would choose the one that best suited my diving.

[RN]

I completely disagree.

With what??

As a cavern diver looking to further your cave training you have to compare the Cave 1 to intro level. It all depends how far you want to go into your training at the time. Instead of taking 3 classes like intro, apprentice and full, you could do Cave 1 & 2. It makes a difference.

But those 3 classes would take a minimum of 6 days where the 2 classes would take minimum of 8 (no credit given for cavern). The difference is in the number of training days. Number of certs doesn't really matter. While I do offer Apprentice as a stand alone class I prefer my students to schedule a 4 day cave class. Apprentice then is used as a provisional should they not meet my expectations for where they need to be to receive a cave card.

[fno]

Rob, I would like to think that a new cavern or intro diver should have decided if cave diving was for them or not by the time that they approach an instructor for apprentice. Or been advised to take up something less demanding by their cavern/intro instructor. Why sign them up and make them pay for the four day class if you are still evaluating them? I am most likely misreading your post, so PM me so I don't look stupid on CDF again...

[RN]

Frank, you might be misreading part of it, but I'll explain further, and do it here to clarify for anyone else that might misunderstand. I've always viewed apprentice as a provisional cert. It expires and the diver reverts back to intro level if cave isn't completed. Many students also take some time between levels. I tell my intro students what they need to work on before coming back for more training. It may be a year or more before they come back and they may have worked on those things but still be lacking in something. This doesn't mean they fail. It means I want to see them back for another day after they've had some time to work on things. It really has nothing to do whether cave diving is for them or not, but rather whether they are at the level where I feel comfortable putting my name on a cave card. I'm more lenient when I know they are going to be penetrating to 1/6 of doubles than when I know they are going to be penetrating close to 1/3 of doubles.

[fno]

Thanks for the explanation, Rob. Makes sense to me.