Observing an unsafe act

[MedCop]

An incident a couple weeks ago is still bothering me. I have debated on saying anything in a public forum, but have decided that discussion may be the best thing.

The incident:

Observing a group of "Cave Divers" enter into a cave with what appears to be all the proper gear, etc. I put "" around Cave Divers as it was a cave and the incident involved diving. There were numerous divers enterting the system / cavern and most likely not all on the same team. I believe the incident actually was centered around a two person team.

I was in sidemount configuration and acting as dive buddy for one person who was doing a rebreather test dive.

It was hard not to notice the person I am talking about as this person entered the cavern area with its light dangling by the cord hanging down (not in hand) swimming at first in a very head up / feet down position. The person was in a drysuit and in doubles. What I observed next I thought was this person "playing" around as this person lost all buoyancy, flipped onto its back and landed on the floor of the cavern in a "dead bug" position (tanks on floor on back.)

I watched this person for a short time thinking they were going to wait for others to pass and then flip over and continue the dive. After all others had passed (took only seconds) the person remained on the cavern floor on its back. The person was breathing, could see exhaust bubbles. I then swam over to this person, hovering above this person I gave them an "OKAY", the response returned was "NO" by means of head gesture (standard NO head movement.)

I gave the person a signal gesturing that I was going to assist them and roll them over. This was returned with a head gesture of "YES." I dropped down further, grabbed the persons inflator and tanks adding a small amount of air to the wing and turning the person over. I kept hold of the persons harness and maneuvered them into a head up / feet down position looking them right in the eyes. I gave the person an "OKAY" signal and did not initially receive an "OKAY" back. I gave a second signal and did receive a very weak "okay" back. However, it was a slow almost automatic signal and by the look in the persons eyes they were not okay.

At this time the individual I was diving with was also at this persons side.

I gave a "Thumbs Up" to the individual who was having difficulty. I received a "NO" signal by means of this persons turning head. I again gave the "Thumbs Up" signal in a more firm manner. Myself along with the individual I was diving with then swam the individual who was having difficulty to the surface.

The individual was obviously shaken up and kept repeating that they were new to the drysuit or new to a drysuit. I am not sure if this was a new suit or new to drysuit diving.

Shortly after returning to the surface another individual came swimming over who the troubled individual obviously knew. We (dive buddy and myself) made sure verbally that the individual was okay and that the other person was going to assist them further. I do believe the person who arrived was this persons dive buddy.

My dive buddy and I then swam away and tended to our business.

A short time later we (dive buddy doing rebreather test dive and I) were back in the water as the person wanted more time on the rebreather.

My dive buddy signaled to me and pointed into the cavern / cave. I observed the individual who we had just rescued back inside the cave. What this individual was doing reminded me of a hard hat diver walking on the bottom. It appeared this individual had a buddy they were following. I watched as this individual walked / swam using arms off into the cave following what I assumed was this persons dive buddy.

I debated going into the cave after this individual but was not equipped to enter that environment. Yes, it was that alarming watching this individual.

The individual did make it out of the cave after this dive. This individual was actually talking to people in the area I was in (I was still standing in shallow water with gear on.) The individual did say something about someone helping them earlier. I simply replied that it was myself and my dive buddy. I spoke no more to this individual after this last exchange.

I talked with another diver who witnessed the incident who advised that the person diving with this individual was actually a cave instructor. I have not confirmed if this is true or not, but have no reason to doubt the statement.

I have a few questions for the dive buddy of this individual:

1) Where were you when your dive buddy was laying stuck on the floor of the cavern?
2) What took so long for you to realize that your dive buddy was missing?
3) Did you consider that maybe this individual was not ready or qualified to do this dive?
4) When you went back into the cave were you not concerned about this individuals ability to maintain buoyancy and trim?

If the person diving with this individual was an instructor I only have one question:

1) What agency do you teach for? (Because I want to know what agency to avoid)

This to me is just plain scary. There was a complete lack of situational awareness, and a complete lack of safety by both the diver and the diver's buddy. If this person is actually a cave diver, who certified them?

I intentionally avoided describing the persons involved. I do not even know the names of the individuals. If others know who the individuals are then it is your decision if you post the identity.

[stairman]

Sounds like by [the individual] that it was a female. Probably should have practiced with the drysuit in open water eh? The cave instructor part is hard to believe though. Glad the test run turned out somewhat ok.

[RN]

I heard about a similar incident occurring at JB the weekend of the CDS workshop. The diver was in the same position when someone else helped her get upright. So it appears this happened more than once that weekend if you were also at JB. If your incident wasn't there then either she gets around or there's more than one!

I don't know who it was or who the instructor was. However, don't blame the agency. All agencies have a bad instructor or two, or 10 or 20. I know of poor instructors in the CDS and NACD. They may have been great instructors at one time, but there aren't any systems in place to monitor quality after the initial IE. So, in other words, avoid the instructor, not the agency.

[divindoc]

Seems like Darwin was just trying to cull the herd...

[jj1987]

I heard about a similar incident occurring at JB the weekend of the CDS workshop. The diver was in the same position when someone else helped her get upright. So it appears this happened more than once that weekend if you were also at JB. If your incident wasn't there then either she gets around or there's more than one!

We witnessed the event as well. The diver discussed her cavern class the week before on the surface, at one point asked if she could take intro in sidemount, and a few sentences later they were discussing their dive plan and letting her know where they would be placing the jump reels.

I don't know who it was or who the instructor was. However, don't blame the agency. All agencies have a bad instructor or two, or 10 or 20. I know of poor instructors in the CDS and NACD. They may have been great instructors at one time, but there aren't any systems in place to monitor quality after the initial IE. So, in other words, avoid the instructor, not the agency.

I'd blame the agency for that.

[RN]

We witnessed the event as well. The diver discussed her cavern class the week before on the surface, at one point asked if she could take intro in sidemount, and a few sentences later they were discussing their dive plan and letting her know where they would be placing the jump reels.

Wow!

I'd blame the agency for that.

You'd have to blame almost all the agencies, then. There's only one I know that has expirations, but I don't know if they require an evaluation at the time.

[Bobby]

We as a community are getting way too PC. If I had been in this situation I would have called my dive and had a direct and frank discussion with the divers as well as find out their actual cert. levels. I was at EN when I encountered two Intro divers preparing to do an air dive to a planned depth of 200 feet. I could tell by their gear and discussion between the two of them that they were not qualified or experienced for the dive they had planned. I scrubbed my dive and convinced them to allow me to buy them lunch at Hooters. I will never know for sure but I believe that at the end of the day they were convinced to seek more training and stay within their personal limits. At the least I know that they did not perform the dive that day or the next as I returned the next day to do my dive.

I have also escorted OW divers out of the Devils system and flooded two divers lights once after finding them in the cave repeatedly. They or anyone else can call me an **** if they want. I have put the time and effort into getting training and experience. I don't want to see others loose their lives because they don't know that they need it and I don't want to loose access either.

It is all a judgment call and I often see things that I don't say a thing about. When it gets blatantly out of the limits then I will speak up.

Bobby

[JE]

"I know of poor instructors in the CDS and NACD." My -intro- to cave some years ago was taught by a renowned NACD instructor & TD whom nearly drowned me in the ballroom at Ginne. Using a set of rented OCbm's I could only rely on sheer experience of common sense to realize this person had no business teaching yet alone being a TD of a national cave diving agency ! His comment was: "maybe I should find a different instructor" It cost me, but I did & glad of it ! My follow up TI was the best & genuinely looked after my skills & technique to the point of being safe in all cave situations. I maintain a freindship with both, but the one has moved on to other things ! He no longer teaches cave . My point being, if you have a bad training experiance with an instructor, find a better one ! Not that difficult & it may save your tush !

[Mart]

There's only one I know that has expirations, but I don't know if they require an evaluation at the time.

Yes, they do.

[shagyluke]

Our instructor was the first one in the water and I dont think he would have let us go past the main line tie off if we didnt have our trim and bouyancy in some kind of functioning order. He definantly would not have let us penetrate the cave in a head up position. A good Instructor is worth his weight in Gold IMO..