DR safety problem & PADI

[phillip1]

NAUI standards are quite clear on this and easily understood. If anyone wants a clarification HQ will be glad to give it to you.

It would be great to send an email or letter on NAUI letter head reminding LDS's of the established safety standards, the more agencies send this kind of correspondence out the more LDS's will listen I think.

We can forward the email to all DR shops and instructors or we can provide HQ with a list of emails and NAUI could send it out directly, either way it would really help.

[rigdiver]

Yes, and all instructor's no matter what agency should know their standards. I really don't see a need for HQ to clarify. I'd point out to said inst in private once. The 2nd time would be formal paperwork. We do have student's lives in our hands.

[phillip1]

Of course and all instructors and dive shops ALL know the guidelines but think they can get away with this kind of irresponsible behavior, when agencies get involved as PADI and the NSS/CDS did here it makes it official that they must stop and that the agencies are aware that the LDS are doing theses kind of untrained dives. It is definitely a deterrent, and if only one shop listens and stops it is worth it.

[TONY CHANEY]

Glad all you hard work paid off Phillip. Now where are the rest of the agencies?

[DeepIsBliss]

I was teaching a PADI Open Water course in Morison Springs a few years ago and an instructor, who had just finished skills (kneeling down on a platform) was encouraging his students to go into the ballroom. He was leaving his class unattended on the platform and swimming them down in pairs. I am certain he was a PADI instructor because, just like me, he had a set of cue card slates attached to his BCD. I was unable to find out who this instructor was, but I wasn't exactly hunting him down after the dive either. I've often been diving with friends in Mexico and had cave guides take certified open water divers on cavern dives. I've often wondered if this practice is safe. We seemed to be going well past the "cavern" zone, but we were swimming from one cavern zone to another (in Taj Ma Ha, or Ponderosa/Garden of Eden). Is it a question of liability? In Mexico the law is very different from the U.S. Is it really a case of PADI caring in the DR, but not Mexico, because of the way liability is handled in those countries?

To adress the kneeling down to complete skills issue, I ask my students to complete all skills in a hover. If you never allow them to kneel down in the pool, and don't overweight them, they get used to doing everything neutrally buoyant. It's surprisingly easy to teach. Have them lay on their bellies so they are in a horizontal swimming position. If they are breathing correctly, and weighted properly, they will fin pivot. They get used to not holding perfectly still, because to breathe in to clear a mask they will rise, then clearing the mask they will fall. Demonstrate it that way. Tell them the only reason they are kneeling down in the video is because they are overweighted and trying to hold still for the cameraman to demonstrate the details of a skill. You'll be better preparing them for any type of diving or continuing education. I love seeing open water divers hover like their on a deco stop! Perfectly horizontal, hands clasped together in front, feet high and tight behind them, and one single tank on their back. It's sooooo cute!!!

[Walter Pickel]

Phillip,

Do you know if this was conveyed to Indiana University? There "professor" was taking open water certified college students into Padre Nuestro. When we approached PADI, they blew it off.

[Jim Wyatt]

When we approached PADI, they blew it off.

I am surprised to hear they "Blew it off". My experience with PADI has been that if you file a formal complaint in writing and provide details such as date, time, and place as well as instructor's name & PADI instructor number they will investigate.

[Walter Pickel]

I am surprised to hear they "Blew it off". My experience with PADI has been that if you file a formal complaint in writing and provide details such as date, time, and place as well as instructor's name & PADI instructor number they will investigate.

From PADI QA

Our Quality Management Department received your letter regarding xxxxxxxxx scientific diving activities in the Dominican Republic. We are familiar with his research.

To clarify the matter from our perspective, xxxxxxxxx was not conducting sanctioned PADI training at the Padre Nuestro location. However, we know that his operations, while not falling under PADI jurisdiction, do fall within PADI’s longstanding parameters described for cavern training with respect to depth, penetration, light zone, visibility, etc.

For this reason, in our view, there is no reason to open a PADI Quality Assurance investigation in this matter.

As an aside, we know that xxxxxxxxx has been conducting research in the Padre Nuestro cavern system for the past 12 years, with hundreds of person-dives having been made without incident. This speaks favorably to the scientific and operational diving practices applied. This research has no correlation to recreational diving, or PADI courses. PADI principals have known xxxxxxxxx and his programs through Indiana University over the years, and can verify a long history of safe and appropriate diving practices.

Neither myself nor the others that filed the complaint felt that taking OW divers in a very silty section of a cavern in only STAB jackets and pencil lights were "safe and appropriate diving practices".

Given Phillip's success, I wonder if they would still feel the same way.

[Jim Wyatt]

Damn....

[matt_w]

*emphasis is mine

I agree that this is better that anything they have done regarding this matter to date, but this is weak. They are saying "if someone dies, we will take your PADI sticker away". It would suck to lose whatever PADI membership they have, but the results of the death would be considerably worse. If those shops were concerned with the chances of death, they wouldn't be doing this anyways.

Change the embolden text to state "if this practice continues" and this is an awesome letter.

Well they are also saying any legal defense you might claim by following standard safe diving practices will not exist.

Not sure what more they can do...they cant jail people. The best they can do is no longer sanction the activities of people and stores that do not adhere to standards.