Quarterly Online Air Quality Results - Post Them Up!

[Puttzer]

Anyone know where to find this internet site?

"Digging for Data
The first stop in the data collection process was the Florida Department of Health (DOH), which, since 1999, has been monitoring all Florida air stations. That year the Florida legislature enacted a law requiring all air stations to have air quality checked quarterly by an accredited laboratory. Test results must be posted in a conspicuous location in the dive center and provided to the DOH, which maintains a website listing of all air stations that are in compliance with the law."

[JahJahwarrior]

Dang skip, I guess Lamar English and Barney's posts both fell on deaf ears.




Thank God its not happening more often, but for those it IS happening to... it can be a life changing event.

Can anyone tell me if those air stations lacked the quarterly test results?

I believe that a shop can pump bad gas even with great quarterly test results, if something bad happens after the quarterly test but before the next one. In that case, a quarterly test result is NOT all you need to do or see as a diver, and putting those results online are not going to stop these from happening.

[mdax]

You are absolutely correct. Available test certificates do not guarantee good gas, it's only a data point. Conversely no test certificate does not mean bad gas. I'm purposely avoiding correlating test results to good/bad; I only want data available to contribute to making a good decision.

I'd like to evaluate the current results, the opportunity to check historical data, an inline CO monitor and confirmation with my own o2 and CO monitor.

I really want a computer displaying every component of the breathing gas in real time inline to the banks as well as a mobile app+hardware allowing me to confirm...however that's for someone very smart to figure out in the future...i do not have the necessary education in chemical analysis or refraction of light in various environments to make that happen.

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Peace of mind I guess.


Mostly, I really like what the guys with the inline CO2 monitors are doing nowadays. I wish all shops filling breathing gas would implement this and I think it'd go a long way in keeping bad gas from being filled.

[Benderr]

Gulf Coast Divers in Mobile has a computer-controlled inline CO sensor on their compressor. The computer immediately shuts down the compressor if it detects CO, which keeps the banks from being contaminated.

[BUNIT]

I know of at least two other local shops in town that never or almost never get quarterly test results. I've been told this by customers who needed to have a copy of quarterly results for them to fill SCBA cylinders.

We do them because we're supposed to and because I breathe the dang gas in caves too!

[cavemark]

We breath our own gas and breath it deep (Eagles Nest & Diepolder). Our tests are done quarterly and posted by the fill station. If you want the data come and get it, we've nothing to hide just because we don't take the time to post it on the internet. We already spend enough time with Taxes, Insurances, Licenses, Boat inspections and routine maintenance. Where does it end? Should we also post that data online?

While your at it, why don't you ask all drivers between home and the dive sites to take regular breathalizer tests and post that data online. You have a greater chance of being in an accident driving to the site than getting a bad fill.

[mdax]

Why would i waste my time coming to a shop to find and inspect their certificate?
We're talking less than 15 minutes a quarter to post it online, if it's not worth your shops time, it certainly isn't worth my time to drive there and wander around looking...i'm the customer with money, shops exist to make money....geesh i should send you'all copies of Atlas Shrugged because somehow the understanding of a free market and the goals of being in business are lost on many dive shop owners.

i don't care about how you pay taxes, insurance, inspections...i do care about the gas i breathe, your gas results, compressor maintenance schedule and whether you have a CO monitor.

You can bet if i see someone drunk i'll call the police and report it...and yea, if you've had a DUI i'd like your car modified to force you to breathe into a breathalyzer before you can start it and a gps device to report your position to the net...i recognize that the drive is the most dangerous part.

I don't care about the "chance" of a bad fill, one incident is a life changer.

I'm really surprised at the resistance from shops like yours Mr. Schroder. Your proverbs quote is awesome but i'm confused which side shops that refuse to listen to customer requests fall on...i'll leave that to biblical scholars.

Benderr, i'm glad to see that Gulf Coast Divers in mobile has an inline CO monitor.
I hope you'all stay safe from the tornados and that you are a-ok.

[JahJahwarrior]

So lets recap:
-posting results online doesn't change the results any from what they were in the shop
-posting online doesn't reduce bad gas any more over current testing protocols
-telling shops you won't shop there unless they post results online without giving them any benefits doesn't work well
-you discredit entirely the work of shops like CEE who shut down for a week over false claims that they had bad gas, and undertook expensive additional testing and cleaning only to find their gas is some of the best in the state, even though their results are posted above the fill station, because they haven't bowed to your demands to post them online
-testing doesn't stop bad gas, unless testing is done on every single fill. It is merely an indicator of a shop that does care. Many of the cases of bad gas in cave country come from shops that undergo quarterly testing and typically do have the best gas in the state.

It seems to me the only reason to post online is to shame shops into doing quarterly testing. Seems to me if you go in to get a fill and then they don't have good test results, your leaving at that point is a far more powerful message than calling them on the phone or ranting at them over the internet.

None of us want bad gas, but there is nothing magical about posting the results online. If we want to be arbitrary, we could also demand that they print the results in the cave journal and give everyone a copy when they get a fill, and send customers a weekly email showing the latest test results and lobby congress for tax deductions for air fills that are tested.

Go on, tell me I'm foolish and that I don't care about bad gas, that I'm a terrible person and an idiot to boot I'll be underwater enjoying gas from companies that treat me with customer service as good as their gas.

Just remember that I do agree with you that it would be handy to have that information available online. Perhaps they could add it to the caveatlas.com site, with a section devoted to stores, to help people find stores near where they are staying (heck, add in a section for reviews of places to stay in cave country, all built on the same model as the cave section, it would work great). My only concern is that you are wrong about these results being necessary for gas to be good, and that you are writing off some of the best shops for stupid reasons. I think you could have much greater success if you changed your approach and showed shops the benefits, beyond the possibility of your business. You might feel you are being polite and doing a good job, but if shops are all declining to help you, then obviously your approach needs to change. The scuba industry runs on friendship and relationships (and thrives on enemies and enemyship...go figure).

[cavemark]

But it's no problem, shops don't have to post anything.
I'll be sure NEVER to go there for fills. Why would anyone spend money at shops that are not open with this information? Many shops are more than happy to embrace the internet to take my money for products and market their "services"...kind of odd to selectively embrace this technology..don't you think?

We do test regularly and are being open with the information. We're just not posting it on the internet. We also don't offer the entire shop on the internet, just a few select items that are exclusive to our shop. So, in that aspect, we are unashamedly selectively embracing the technology.

I shouldn't have to travel in person to a shop to wander around looking for their certificate and listen to them yammer away...many dive shops are in economic peril exactly because of this attitude...and they deserve to be shuttered and have customers leave.

Why would you have to travel to the shop and wander around looking for a certificate when all you have to do is ask, or call or email. We wouldn't yammer, we would just say "sure, it's over on the wall next to the valves".

Doesn't anyone else find it strange that so many shops refuse to take our safety seriously?

We do take your safety seriously. That's why we test the air quality, maintain the compressor & filters, check for your 'C' card, check your tanks for VIP & Hydro and make you fill out & sign the mix log. I fail to see how posting test results on the internet is in any way improving the safety of the air we pump.

....geesh i should send you'all copies of Atlas Shrugged because somehow the understanding of a free market and the goals of being in business are lost on many dive shop owners.

Interesting choice of books to cite. Isn't the main theme the collapse of society due to governement over-regulation? There is already a requirement that the gas be tested quarterly; next, the requirement that it be posted conspicuously; next, that the customer be handed a copy of the results each time they buy gas; Next, that an official log be maintained and filed with the state every month; next, the state has to tax the pumpers to pay the people who have to review the filed reports and eventually we end up paying as much to fill our dive tanks as we do to fill our fuel tanks. Then people stop diving because it's too expensive and someone tries to blame it on the shops not being willing to post their test results on the internet.

Most shops do have an understanding of a free market and the goals of being in business. You don't stay in business if you don't make any money. You can't keep adding cost to items without increasing the price and have people keep buying it. One customer wanting something does not create demand.

Your proverbs quote is awesome but i'm confused which side shops that refuse to listen to customer requests fall on...

All shops act on all customer requests, just like God answers all prayers. Sometimes the answer is "No".