Ginnie Springs

[Line Squirrel]

Well, by that argument then it doesn't matter if the State retained any mineral rights. GSO owns the land...top to bottom, surface and subsurface.

Brian

True, but then they might pull the "eminent domain" card. Water being what it is, necessary to sustain life, yadda yadaa.

[Benthic]

I suppose so. But, without some sort of test case, this is all just a hypothetical discussion anyway. GSO will decide if that gate remains in place in the ballroom or not--unless someone decides to sue them over the issue. And that would be a lawsuit that (in my fairly uneducated opinion) would be very expensive, and *very* difficult to win.

Personally, I'll just be happy diving the Devil's System and leave things be.

Brian

[Line Squirrel]

... this is all just a hypothetical discussion anyway...

Indeed, but interesting none the less This thread certainly went off on a bit of a tangent lol

[sdenney]

The "fee simple, absolute" property owner, in FL, owns the corpus that the groundwater runs through, regardless of mineral rights, however they do not own the water (or the void the water runs through, if any; e.g. karst passageways). The property owner has reasonable consumptive use rights to the water whether on or under the surface of the property. ALL water, in FL, is held in the public trust by the state. That includes the water in the Devil's System or even in your swimming pool. There have been cases where the need for water was such that the state allowed the water districts to enter private property and take the water from ponds and pools (even cutting down fences and gates to get to it).

[FW]

... This thread certainly went off on a bit of a tangent lol

Not really, it all has to do with the grate

[Line Squirrel]

I guess the reason I entered into the fray and the points I was making was geared more toward access to the Devil System rather than the grate and the Jenny System when it was speculated that if GSO insurance went up they might consider not allowing any cave diving from, their property at all.

[jlillest]

The "fee simple, absolute" property owner, in FL, owns the corpus that the groundwater runs through, regardless of mineral rights, however they do not own the water (or the void the water runs through, if any; e.g. karst passageways). The property owner has reasonable consumptive use rights to the water whether on or under the surface of the property. ALL water, in FL, is held in the public trust by the state. That includes the water in the Devil's System or even in your swimming pool. There have been cases where the need for water was such that the state allowed the water districts to enter private property and take the water from ponds and pools (even cutting down fences and gates to get to it).

So what you're saying is that GSO owns the rock that forms the cave walls, but the water is public property?

That means I can get dropped off by boat at the Ginnie entrance and swim to the back without technically trespassing. But, if I tie off a primary reel to the river bottom or cave floor then I'm trespassing? So you're saying that rule #2 will keep me alive, but gets me in trouble with the law?

I guess that's also great motivation to maintain good buoyancy control, one errant bump on the wall while riding the flow out the entrance could earn you a night in the slammer. This GSO access discussion is getting interesting!

-Jon

[RAL]

The land owner has the right to keep you from touching his land. He has no right to keep you out if you can get there by water. His shotgun however ofter renders that point moot. Out in the woods there is the trespassers word (you ain't from around here are ya?) and the land owners word.


RAL

[Tegg]

The land owner has the right to keep you from touching his land. He has no right to keep you out if you can get there by water. His shotgun however ofter renders that point moot. Out in the woods there is the trespassers word (you ain't from around here are ya?) and the land owners word.


RAL

That is always a two way street... On the water, one can carry.

[Greenwood_60]

That is always a two way street... On the water, one can carry.

This is why I love America!