This is why the attitude...

**Sludge** · 02-13-2011 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Kelly Jessop

why do we keep having to relearn these lessons,over,and over again.....

There are three kinds of men: the ones that learn by reading, the ones that learn by observation, and the ones that have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

**jj1987** · 02-13-2011 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by DA Aquamaster

...Insert above novel here....

If anyone wants a great article about building experience to go to bigger and better dives, I suggest they read "Further from Daylight: Extending the Reach of Cathedral Canyon". It's the best article on progressive cave diving that I've ever read. Written by Todd Leonard for the Spring 2005 Quest magazine. It gives examples of how a (now) well accomplished cave diver worked his way up to a dive that was previously thought "impossible".

**gasdiver** · 02-13-2011 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by DA Aquamaster

The problem is that too many of us are willing to jump to the first conclusion - often under the justification of promoting safety - when what we really should be doing first is politely asking some clarifying questions. That does not always happen. And then we often make it worse because once someone starts, the dog piling begins.

How we say what we say is often just as important as what we say.

DA, this is a good point. I recently responded to a thread with a sarcastic response loaded with political innuendo. It was a joke, but I got eaten alive for bringing politics into this forum. My post was deleted and I heard later that the mods were considering a new rule regarding politics on this forum. Talk about dog piling! (Yes, I learned my lesson and won't make anymore political jokes without leading and trailing

...)

I know a number of people who refuse to participate in this and other forums because of this sort of behavior. It's too bad, because these people have a lot of experience and wisdom to offer.

**chicken** · 02-13-2011 08:59 AM

Is there a way to view the article without paying the $39 membership fee?

RN · 02-13-2011 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by jj1987

Just IMO, but a scooter is a tool to accomplish a job, not a tool to create one. The question was worded "how far can this UV26 get me", not I'd like to explore beyond ________, will this tool support it? IMO that's what threw up the red flag.

A difference of interpretation. I interpreted Adam's question as asking what kind of penetration does a new UV26 get and what kind of penetration can be expected of a used one. I also have the advantage of knowing Adam and knowing that my interpretation is the one he was inquiring.

Also, there were quite a few posters/readers of Adam's broken Tekna thread. What I recall is that Adam only took the Tekna on a cave dive once or twice and he was on his way to JB to go dive with Russell when his Suburban and Tekna were damaged. In turn, someone told him the integrity of the hull could have been compromised in the collision. Being the conservative, safe-minded diver I know Adam to be, he's now concerned about taking that scooter into a cave and having something happen to it during the dive. So he's looking to buy a different scooter. Why did he buy the Tekna to begin with? Well, he got a smokin' deal on it. I would have bought it just to resell if I had known about it.

Jim, great post. It does explain why some people respond the way they do in many of the threads here and other places. But I also think people would be more effective if they were to step back a minute and think about what they are going to post. Sometimes providing a little more information in a more constructive manner will be more of a deterrent, or at least bring out the true meaning of the inquiry. Other than some postings by the guys who died in Wayne's World, I don't recall any threads/postings by anyone else prior to their deaths. And I don't think any of those guys died because of information/advice they got on the Internet forums, or that any information/advice they would have gotten on the forums would have changed their actions. The Wayne's World guys were called out on their actions in person and over the phone, and they still got themselves killed.

Anyway, my point is I believe a little more time and effort put into responses to questions, even ones we think the poster is just trying to skirt real training, would be more productive. We're all guilty of giving quick, snarky responses, me included. But that really doesn't do anything buy alienate people and possibly even push them in the direction of doing what they shouldn't be doing.

**jj1987** · 02-13-2011 09:46 AM

Rob,

I think part of the concern is that the stories are confusing-