why the attitude???

[floridabob]

If there is a specific way a particular forum or its subscibers want questions phrased, that should be put in a "sticky" thread addressed to Newbies: "New to the Forum, Read this first".

Kinda sounds pompous when put that way, though.

Pretty soon, all they new enrollees on the forums will quit asking questions, anyway.

Honestly, a beach dive off the coast of Lauderdale by the Sea in an off shore wind, outgoing tide and a bit bumpy can be a hell of a lot more phsically taxing than a 4k cave dive somewhere...especially if you use a scooter. Course there isnt a couple dozen feet of rock over your head, either.

Anyway, every type of diving has its potential hazards. No question.

If you want to be a steward of the sport (whatever sport), then help people, encourage them in the right direction. Give them actionable, appropriate feedback that shows knowledge. Posts do not equal skill.

Despite what people might think, Cave diving needs new people interested and getting certified. Just ask the instructors.

Blood in the water, who are the Post & Dive Police going to flame if new people never get in?

[Marc Bryan]

I do not understand why asking someones quals makes me the dive police? I think it makes me a responsible steward of the information graciously given to me.

I also do not understand what is meant by making training more attractive, could you elaborate?

As mentioned, I share info and mentor new divers as often as possible. I have zero interest in keeping new people from learning.

What I have an interest in is avoiding situations like WW, where people die, and the legal repurcussions affect us all. I have an interest in safety, this does not mean not doing dangerous dives, it just means doing them safely for the communities benefit.

I do not believe cavern divers should dive Alachua, WW, Indian, Rock Bluff, Treehouse,etc....i dont believe an AOW nitrox diver should be on the Doria, Britannica, etc...I believe they should be trained/educated/mentored to the point they can execute the dives as safely as possible.

If that makes me the scuba police in someones opinion......so f'ng be it.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[floridabob]

I apologize you seem to be taking this personal, that is not the intent. Was it you that questioned Adam without clarifying why you were asking? Much like he asked without preamble what to look for in a used scooter. (incidentally, not how to scooter safely).

If it was you, then that is between you and Adam. I would not call you the dive police simply because you don't have enough posts to be "that guy", or at least not very often.

I am enjoying this again. It has happened before and it will happen again. Someone gets offended because others don't take the time to frame a post, just as they themselves did not frame their inquiry.

Most times, its a simple misunderstanding. Sometimes, the guy is just an Ass. Have no idea what really applies here. But Adam did get some crap for what was actually a fairly good question.

The irony should be obvious in all this, by the way.

Bob

[diverdarren]

I think that this is a bad time of year for many of us cave divers who don't live in Florida, and we try to stay involved in cave diving by talking about it with one another, but that is a poor replacement and what we really need is a good cave dive! I also believe that jealousy comes into play when we read posts by others who are getting a good cave dive when we are not. And lastly, I think that we are all so full of pride that we cannot be happy for others in their success, especially if they happen to be younger than us. I'm sure there are a few other good reasons that I have left out, but the pride thing is one that every diver is guilty of, along with every other human on the planet. If we would all try to imagine ourselves in the others shoes before we post, maybe our posts would be more interesting and less abrasive. I do find it extremely interesting that the moderators of this forum already seem to know this and therefore are the best posters on the forum. IMHO

[obsession600]

The impression that I have gotten from my short time on this board and my limited experience diving is that caves are much more susceptible to closing than most other dive sites and they are also much easier to access. Anyone with an OW setup, a map and a car can get themselves into some trouble without much effort. Deep water wreck dives etc. tend to take a lot more effort logistically which weeds out a lot of folks who aren't qualified for that type of diving. The fear of cave diving being outlawed or heavily restricted leads many cave divers to be judicious about handing out advice to people that they have never met. The fact that most caves don't heal naturally from damage also plays a role in this. As with any community some individuals can be overly brusque or downright rude with regards to dealing with other people especially strangers.

[Rich]

My comment to you on TDS about a class was right on the money IMHO. Some of the comments you see here are from cave divers (myself included) who have already pulled bodies of friends out who didn't listen to well meaning advice! I don't even know who you are, but your name has come up in conversation at the shop I manage countless times over the past few weeks, not in a good way and you do not want that kind of rep in this community. I don't care how many dives you have, I don't go around going on about how great I am, I teach 'cause people ask me to teach them but I LOVE cave diving, as do countless others on here. Every time someone perishes in a cave it affects all of us with access issues, people putting their lives on the line to retrieve your body for your loved ones, etc. Here's a link to an article I wrote for the NACD Journal right after Joe H died, give it a read and see what you think. Remember this is nothing personal, we speak from experience which unfortunately you don't have right now.....

http://divecaves.com/?p=312

Safe diving,

Rich

P.S. Some advice for ya, if you don't like the answer, then don't ask the question.....

[Marc Bryan]

It wasn't me.

I do take it personally. It is a personal subject matter. My only interest is protecting my access to sites and protecting cave organizations from legal issues. If it was gauranteed that trashing sites, and deaths would not cause closure of sites, then as far as I am concerned, we live in a free country do what you want. The issue is the negligence of others directly affects me in a personal way.

[wingman]

I post a thread asking what to look for in a used scooter
first response."take a scooter class first and never scooter where you havent swam"
I was not asking about how to employ a scooter just what to look for in buying a used one.

You posted this on TDS: "looking to get a uv-26 for cave diving. What are a few things to look for? And how far is a decent penetration for a few year old uv-26? I have a tekna so I am trying to step up a bit."

If you had stopped at What are a few things to look for? I would not see any problem. However you go on to tell everyone you are already scootering with a tekna and wanting to step up a bit, whatever that means (fancier, longer burn time, more reliable, further penetration, etc.) and you ask how far is a decent penetration for a few year old uv 26...that signals to me that you do not understand burn time which is critical knowledge for planning purposes when using any dpv. You WERE asking about how to employ a scooter in my opinion....maybe that is not what you meant but that is how it came across to me and i am guessing that's what Rich thought as well. That is the nature of an internet/email conversation, you lose the interactivity and instananeous adjustment in normal conversations. Your rant on more experienced divers is a bit over the top, in my opinion. Providing information here or in other contexts has uncertain outcomes and the best recommendation of all is to suggest that you get the training. Maybe the next time you are at jb and someone has an ss ask them about it, I'm sure they will be glad tio tell you and the chance for miscommunication will be less. Bill

[floridabob]

Marc--To be clear: I agree 100% with your last post. I want to get in forever. Period. I live hear and always have.

I did not think that was the issue at hand, though. I thought Adam was asking why things turn negative and aggressive in posts, whatever the reason.

Your passion to protect access/environment/entertainment, whatever, is admirable.

However, I would challenge the "take a scooter class" approach from the angle that you, nor anyone else, can know exactly what anyone is qualified to do...not based on what they say or what they type. Gotta do the legwork. He asked a question (two actually on that post). One was simple. The other was a give away that he needs additional training. BUT! You need a scooter to take the class and that's his first step: find a decent scooter at a price he can afford that fits his planned, future dives. I think Bill may be right that the second half could come across as an inquiry on how to utilize a scooter. Or it could be rooted in making the right scooter purchase. Who knows? Hard to tell on the Forums: Again, Bill's point is spot on.

Rich--I would encourage you to tread carefully calling others out in such a public forum. We are all subject to lynching by the masses. Lord knows! I would suggest a PM in the future for such a delicate piece of feedback...such as the one I am sure you will be zipping me shortly.

[Rich]

. We are all subject to lynching by the masses. Lord knows! I would suggest a PM in the future for such a delicate piece of feedback...such as the one I am sure you will be zipping me shortly.

Sorry, but I don't know who you are? I really didn't see me calling anyone out, just offering some advice. If you know me, then you know very well that I speak my mind and don't "toe the party line" so to speak. I've been publicly lynched many times, I know very well there's a target on my back, but I don't feel like changing! What you see is what you get, if you want to be told you're the best then go suck up to someone, there's plenty out there who'll tell you exactly what you want to hear. This is why I make it very obvious who I am when I post on a public forum and I don't hide behind silly screen names. YMMV....

Safe diving,

Rich