Richard, go and look how well that has worked at Falmouth before you wish for anything. The county made it simple, no diving allowed without a permit.Originally Posted by Puttzer
And, I have not seen anyone working to get Falmouth open.
"Have you ever noticed
When you're feeling really good
There's always a pigeon
That'll come shiat on your hood?" John Prine 4-7-2020
"Into the blue again; in the silent water
Under the rocks, and stones; there is water underground" Talking Heads
Absolutely. 46 states nation wide are facing significant budget cuts, and Florida's 4 billion deficit is far better than many other states from both per capita and total dollars perspectives.
Stimulus funding never stimulated anything - because most states used it to supplant state appropriated funding and in doing so abosrbed much of the impact the poor economy had on their tax revenues. In the long view, that was a really bad idea as it did nothing over the last two years to turn the economy around. (But to be fair when we continue to poor two billion plus dollars per week that we don;t really have into the sandbox, I'm not sure creating more jobs etc, would have made any difference.) As it is, stimulus funding delayed the hit on state services by two years, but states are going to feel it full force over the next fiscal year.
I am pretty non partisan as working in Washington has demonstrated to me that Democrat or Republican, it's more about following party dogma and supporting various special interest groups that get politicians elected than it is making wise decisions in the interest of the country or living up to a promise of government for the people by the people.
At the heart of the issue is the very naive and very entitled attitude among most of the public that we can hold the line on taxes or even cut taxes and still demand to maintain the same previous level of services. That is simply not the case, and while we all conmplain about how badly politicans run the country, we keep electing them, we keep tolerating a system that leaves politicians tootally beholden to special interest groups and bug business interests, and we keep insisting on high levels of service but refuse to pay more in taxes. The fact is when you consider medicaid/medicare, social security, interest on the federal debt and our expenditures for the war on terror, we could eliminate all the discretionary spending (i.e. everything else) in the budget, not just freeze it, and we still could not balance the federal budget. So even at best, we are going to have endure tax increases or significant decreases in services to stop the current budgetary slide.
OFG, I am probably the only person I know who consistently leaves bruises on Lincoln's head, and I didn't complain about the $15/day fee, and told the person who called from the DEP to keep it in place and we'd be happy. Perhaps there are other tightwads who felt that paying $15 to dive or $60 for an annual pass was too much, but I thought the general concensus was, we were ok with it.
We need to get rid of these politicians and put businessmen into power. You can't run a business this poorly and survive, it shouldn't be legal to run a state like this, either.
Could we get them turned over (or purchased for a favorable price) to one of the organizations (NSS-CDS, NACD, or NFSA)?
Cheers,
Jeff
I suspect the budget folks are not going to be real concenred about joe public not getting to visit their favorite park when the perception will be that they can just go to another one with no major inconvenience. And the underlying idea may well be that if they don't got to park A, they'll still go to Park B, so the state will save money and not loise any significant revenue.
Obviously, as cave divers we see it differently and the key here will be to make that viewpoint known and understood to the legislature.
Personally, Marci and I travel to N FL 4 times per year, staying about a week each time and if when you add it all up we spend between $1500 to $2000 per trip with at least 90% of that money being spent in Florida. ($7200 per year in money earned somewhere else pumped directly into the Florida economy where it turns over 5 to 7 times in taxable sales, representing at least $35,000 in taxable dollars before it's all said and done.
If FL closes Peacock and Madison, it would change where we dive and it will also temp us to spend at least one of our annual trips in MX, eliminating not only one FL trip but also a second in order to pay for the higher travel costs to MX. That's potentially a $17,000 loss in taxable revenue to FL just from effects of the money spent by the two of us. Scale that up over the segment of the non local zip code cave diving community that has similar spending patterns and that adds up to a significant impact on the affected N FL counties and the businesses in them as well as to the state of FL as a whole.
You balance a budget not only by cutting services but also by preserving or increasing revenue. From that perspective no one in the legislature is going to appeal to pity, sentiment, or a love of cave diving (and if they did, they'd deserve to be licked out of office under any management model) but they should and will respond to a solid financial argument showing that the "savings" in closing parks that support /allow access to cave diving will have a greater impact on revenue and result in a net loss to the state at a time when it cannot afford to lose revenue.
JahJah:
>We need to get rid of these politicians and put businessmen into power. You can't run a business this poorly and
>survive, it shouldn't be legal to run a state like this, either.
I share your sentiment, but business managers don't have to be elected and re-elected by their employees. It's a very different dynamic.
DA:
>So even at best, we are going to have endure tax increases or significant decreases
>in services to stop the current budgetary slide.
I'm not sure that'll do it. Since back in the '40s, the revenue collected by the Gov't has run close to 18% of Gross Domestic Product, occasionally moving a percentage point or two up or down, even as tax rates varied over a wide range. (See http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfa....cfm?Docid=205 ) Raising taxes significantly may drive down GDP, driving down the dollars collected. If we need more Gov't revenue (and we do), we should be emphasizing ways to increase the GDP.
Didn't we go a similar thing with the State Parks back when Chiles was governor of FL? I seem to recall a similar letter-writing campaign back then.
Last edited by Half-Fast; 01-28-2011 at 08:23 AM. Reason: 42
1/2
__________________________________________________ ___________________
The last thing I ever want to do is hurt you. But it's definitely on the list.
That idea sounds great, but historically it has not worked well. Consider the recent housing and banking disasters. Both resulted due to government creating a regulatory environment made to order for business interests to make money. In those cases it was intended to allow business interests to make derivative income off money rather than actually producing or adding value to something tangible. That kind of "business" oriented thinking is what has gotten us into our current hole. (I'd get into why business and making money drives the wars in Iraq and Afganistan, but that's too painful for many of the people involved.)
I agree government needs to be run on sound financial mangment principles, but turning government totally over to business people (people who are biased toward and loive for making a profit that is laways by definition going to be at the expense of someone else) is just not the answer. Instead we need politicians and bureacrats who actually understand and believe in sound fiscal management.
Sure, that way Peacock, Madison, Troy, and any county or water mgmt owned property can become another Ginnie. For those who cannot afford the high, profit-motivated entrance fee, too bad. Go enjoy nature somewhere else.
Since Florida citizens just elected (and have been electing for 20 plus years), a pro-business legislature and executive this is what happens. Write your state legislator and senator today. Tell him how you feel. Chances are (s)he agrees with you, BUT (s)he can not continue to promise lower taxes and keep the same level of service. Something has to give and normally that means the natural environment.
Find out who your rep is here.:
http://www.flsenate.gov/Legislators/...TOKEN=74749329
Think about this. Businessmen ran Enron. Businessmen ran Worldcom. Bernie Madoff was a businessman. So are the guys that ran GM, Chrysler, Fannie Mae, Leyman Brothers, AIG insurance.
It doesn't matter who or what we elect. If the people elected do not have any personal integrity, then it is of no matter.
ps - Florida just elected a businessman as Governor who was CEO of a company that was involved in the biggest Medicare fraud in the state's history, but don't worry, he didn't know.
"Have you ever noticed
When you're feeling really good
There's always a pigeon
That'll come shiat on your hood?" John Prine 4-7-2020
"Into the blue again; in the silent water
Under the rocks, and stones; there is water underground" Talking Heads
Your second sentence is why the first one is absolutely wrong. Who we elect has everything to do with how well government works.
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