Narcosis -- insidious and subtle

[JahJahwarrior]

I never said that I only dive caves where double arrows mark jumps, just that most of the time, double arrows means a jump. I don't run into very many times that there are double arrows marking a preferred exit. I'm very used to dropping my own arrows to mark jumps...

Lots of caves out there with beautiful side tunnels with no line in them at all, and I don't see the point in marking them all for others to go destroy

[Puttzer]

"I did my Cave 2 class last August in Florida, and got repeatedly slammed for poor situational awareness. I knew a part of it was narcosis, but I thought CO2 intoxication from depth and exertion, coupled with sleep deprivation and generally poor morale, had a big role to play."

Narcosis? Oh please.....stop the excuses! We all experience task loading issues in our training. It's part of our training. If our instructor does NOT overload us, he's not doing his job (IMHO)

Your whinning suggest you want to be "the best" and probably eventually will be an exceptional diver. But it takes time.
You'll be fine, like all of us

Go diving, get better , have fun.
My 2¢

[RN]

Of course, to close in support of the initial point, being a doctor, you also bring more congitive resources than the norm to the cave to start with, so that suggests that narcosis is probably not the major cause of not dropping a cookie.

While the bolded words apply to Lynne, you can't make a general statement like that regarding doctors. Unfortunately, there are many doctors out there that lack cognitive abilities.

Well, maybe you guys are right, but I see a pattern of me doing really stupid things at depth that I don't do on shallower dives, and it scares me.

When you're out here next, we'll go somewhere else shallower with a similar plan, maybe a little more complex, and see what happens. Also, if you think back, we did "OK" the permanent arrow before making the jump. So, the team did acknowledge this. There was no "blind following" as has been suggested, just a different procedure.

[aainslie]

I got this a lot on my early dives. I also put it down to narcosis. Perhaps there is a bit. but far worse was the tunnel vision occurrin from the pressure of trying to perform well.

Once I relaxed, and particularly started diving on my own, most of this stopped.

Well, at least until a recent trip where I damaged my rebreather...

Seriously, I think that this is a little narcosis, and a lot perceptual narrowing.

[FW]

Well, at least until a recent trip where I damaged my rebreather... ...

OK, tell us this story ...

[DA Aquamaster]

While the bolded words apply to Lynne, you can't make a general statement like that regarding doctors. Unfortunately, there are many doctors out there that lack cognitive abilities.

It's kinda nit picking, I've seen more than a few Ph.Ds who were seriously challegened in terms of cognitive ability. In Lynn's case we are clearly talking about a competent medical doctor. But consider my statement amended with the additional qualifiers.

The point simply is that if we are talking about strictly cognitive performance, if you start with more cognitive ability on the surface and experience a comparable loss of ability with each foot of depth, you've got more to lose before your ability is reduced to any given level.

The larger potential flaw in the argument is the concept of different definitions and types of intellegence. For example, even staying within the bounds of traditional IQ measurement, some people of above average overall intelligence may have exceptional verbal skills but have comparatively low spatial skills, and spatial skills are going to be much more useful in navigation and SA in a cave.

But again in Lynn's case, I suspect it would be really hard to become a competent surgeon lacking solid spatial skills and I doubt a person lacking those skills could get through a surgical residency. In contrast, a Ph.D in English lit however, could however probably get the degree without being able to tie his or here shoes, let alone even be able to find them on his or her feet as spatial skills are not central to the degree requirements.

[OFG-1]

It's kinda nit picking, I've seen more than a few Ph.Ds who were seriously challegened in terms of cognitive ability. In Lynn's case we are clearly talking about a competent medical doctor. But consider my statement amended with the additional qualifiers.

The point simply is that if we are talking about strictly cognitive performance, if you start with more cognitive ability on the surface and experience a comparable loss of ability with each foot of depth, you've got more to lose before your ability is reduced to any given level.

The larger potential flaw in the argument is the concept of different definitions and types of intellegence. For example, even staying within the bounds of traditional IQ measurement, some people of above average overall intelligence may have exceptional verbal skills but have comparatively low spatial skills, and spatial skills are going to be much more useful in navigation and SA in a cave.

But again in Lynn's case, I suspect it would be really hard to become a competent surgeon lacking solid spatial skills and I doubt a person lacking those skills could get through a surgical residency. In contrast, a Ph.D in English lit however, could however probably get the degree without being able to tie his or here shoes, let alone even be able to find them on his or her feet as spatial skills are not central to the degree requirements.

Is this a long winded way of saying that a lot of really educated people don't have enough common sense to pour piss out of a boot?

[RN]

But again in Lynn's case, I suspect it would be really hard to become a competent surgeon lacking solid spatial skills and I doubt a person lacking those skills could get through a surgical residency. In contrast, a Ph.D in English lit however, could however probably get the degree without being able to tie his or here shoes, let alone even be able to find them on his or her feet as spatial skills are not central to the degree requirements.

You haven't met some of the doctors I've worked with, surgeon's included...

[DA Aquamaster]

I would put an arrow.

The point was there are several unmarked jumps even in the early parts of this well travled system. Like you I will add a marker to an unmarked line I am jumping from. However, it's simplistic to say a diver always drop an arrow.

Staying with the P1 unmarked tunnels theme, how about the Seven tunnel in P1? If you come from P1 and are returning to P1 and drop an arrow pointing back to P1, it will be a conflicting arrow as Olsen sink is closer to air from either end of the seven tunnel. Rather than drop a conflicting arrow I'll drop a cookie.

In cases where the jump is marked (single or double arrow) I'll put the jump line on a cookie on my preferred exit side of the arrow(s). However, if there is(are) no arrow(s) marking the jump, then you have the option of laying a non-conflicting arrow on the main line (in essence creating a single arrow marked jump pointing to the closest exit), and when your exit is not consistent with the arrow place your jump line on a cookie on your preferred exit side of the arrow. Alternatively you could just put the jump line directly on the line, creating a "T" and then place a cookie placed on your preferred exit side of your jump line. Any of the approaches indicates your preferred exit direction without creating any conflicting information for other divers.

[DA Aquamaster]

Is this a long winded way of saying that a lot of really educated people don't have enough common sense to pour piss out of a boot?

It's a nice way of saying it. Besides, those instructions on the heel of the boot can be confusing.