Wisconsin cave diving!

[Tamara Thomsen]

Mark- That regulation is specifically for the 2 caves (Ledgeview and Maribel Caves) where the DNR has physically removed the bats and put in one-way bat gates on the cave openings- so the caves can remain open to tourists. They were making commercial caves choose between bats or humans up until this last meeting where they made additional provisions for the other commercial properties by purchasing several sets of caving gear for them to use specifially in their cave.

Cave diving falls under the same legislations as recreational caving, and the law applies to all cave and mine openings in the state whether submerged, semi-submerged, or not.

[EEL]

Tammy,

Thanks for the clarification. It is very unfortunate that the rule seems to have a resonable provision to allow recreational caving in caves where there are no bats, but the officials are interpreting it to only allow visitors in Ledgeview and Maribel Caves. This is serious and even though it is only in WI now; Forrest is correct the rest of us who enjoy recreation in caves could soon find ourselves in a similar situation.

Good luck

Mark

[Me]

What are we protecting flying rats, do they support the local economy. I think we should protect ourselves how many bats does Wisconsin need?

In a sense, they do. They pollinate too, many foodstuffs would be hindered.

[JDostal]

As a long time Wisconsin cave diver, this sucks big time. I hope we can get this fixed here before it spreads to other states.

Posted from my phone.

[beperkins]

I know this is not strictly related to Cave Diving, but the Missouri government is already closing many caves. http://www.dnr.mo.gov/newsrel/nr10-280.htm

Many diveable springs in Missouri are closed to diving, or diveable by permit only, these dry cave closures just takes us further down the path of Legislators barring people from using natural resources.

[Garyd]

We should come up with something. This would set a bad precident, it could effect cave diving anywhere in the US, including FL, MO, etc.

What we really need to do is convince DNR that there are no bats underwater.

Exactly what the concern is around here and why the word is being spread among the community of interested individuals. Not only is there strength in numbers but there are idea's as well.

[darkdiver211]

I don't think it's funny Forrest, I think the government should be worrying about the jobless rate and the homeless and hungry folks that I take care of on a daily basis. Bats are not as important as hungry children.

[John Ploegert]

December issue of National Geographic has an article detailing this bat problem if anyone wants to learn more about the problem.
John

[FW]

I don't think it's funny Forrest, I think the government should be worrying about the jobless rate and the homeless and hungry folks that I take care of on a daily basis. Bats are not as important as hungry children.

Actually the governent does worry more about other stuff, or they would have solved the bat problem by now. Closing caves is the cheap, easy way out for the government. Unfortunatley, that makes it OUR problem now! Once government makes a decision, it is next to impossible to get it changed.

FWIW, if all the bats die, your hungry children will be even hungrier. With both bee, and bat populations dying in the US, the food supply will "die" too.

[jlillest]

As a long time Wisconsin cave diver, this sucks big time. I hope we can get this fixed here before it spreads to other states.

Wow, the White Nose epidemic is continuing to spread across the US and wildlife entities are panicking as it approaches their states. This happened to us three years ago as it approached our prime caving lands. I consider us (in VA) to be fortunate to have responsive and mellow-minded bat folks that controlled what they could without over-reacting.

Here's my advice: Respect the cave closures and use this as an opportunity to open a dialogue with the folks responsible for making the closure happen (The WI DNR). Offer to help them monitor bat sites and keep in constant communication with the biologists that are so worried about the bats. White Nose is a serious threat to bat populations and as it reaches your state, the flying rats will decline and lose their ability to control your mosquito population whether you go caving/diving or not. Despite a lot of theories to the contrary, humans have not been proven to be a significant contributor to the spread of WNS.

Unfortunately for those that live in the northern states, WNS may not come and pass as fast as it has for us in the Appalachian states along the heaviest bat migration patterns. I'd imagine your "no-caving" period may last longer, but within 5 years most of the bats will be dead and you can go back to diving in caves with bat populations outside of hibernation and maternity seasons.

White Nose is to bats what the black plague was to humans many centuries ago, a simple herd-thinning disease. There's no evidence, at this point, that humans are going to make it better or worse, but the biologists are closing caves because they feel like they have to do something. Just grin and bear it, and use it as an opportunity to work with the biologists. Fighting it will just cause a lot of animosity on both sides.

Check out some of the WNS info at the NSS White Nose information site and search for the VA DGIF response to protecting bats while still allowing caving.

-Jon