what are the rules for divers in caves in FL and mexico?

[Neptuno]

ok, we got some very good governmental contacts, and we need to make some proposals now.

we need to find some information, and I think mexico and Florida would be really cool...

some info that we might need or if I could get information in how to obtain it, would be for example,
what are the rules for cavern guided dives?, the guide has to be what? full cave in full gear plus divemaster +? other rules?
cave guide....?? ratio?
for a cavern guided dive, can it be just a cavern instructor not being a full cave diver in full cave gear?
any other?

some statistics: where can we find statistics of how many divers go to peacock and/or ginnie a year?, same in mexico if possible, is there any way to estimate???

is possible to know how many cave divers are already certified lets say in NACD and NSS? and how many certified per year??

is there any limit as divers per day at ginnie or peacock?.

ok, for the moment I think that would be all we need, not sure if phil has something more in mind, if somebody already has that info would be cool if can share it, or if somebody could give us some place to find it is cool as well.

thanx a lot

[Sludge]

I don't know about Mexico but there are no laws in Florida concerning this. Whatever rules the landowner wants, that's what the rules are.

[Neptuno]

well I think NACD and NSS must have some, or some "ideals" at least, but lets say peacock and ginnie that are the main overpopulated caves, what are they taking as "normal"

I know that they are more sensitive caves like alachua, well would be cool to know, how many divers a day are allowed at alachua and how many divers per guide? that would be a cool example because there are some caves that they do not want to open to the public down here and we want to propose guided dives in them to see if they agree to allow diving like that, that would be very cool because right now is "forbidden" except for special cases but a diver that comes cannot go, and they are the coolest caves in fact.

[Neptuno]

well I think NACD and NSS must have some, or some "ideals" at least, but lets say peacock and ginnie that are the main overpopulated caves, what are they taking as "normal"

I know that they are more sensitive caves like alachua, well would be cool to know, how many divers a day are allowed at alachua and how many divers per guide? that would be a cool example because there are some caves that they do not want to open to the public down here and we want to propose guided dives in them to see if they agree to allow diving like that, that would be very cool because right now is "forbidden" except for special cases but a diver that comes cannot go, and they are the coolest caves in fact.

[Bob Cree]

I would contact Frank Ohidy, he on the NSS-CDS Board of Directors and is responsible for CDS managed properties. You can get his contact info off the CDS site. I helped update the most recent version of the site management plan which includes Alachua, and it is very specific. Frank can give you the details you are looking for.

[CaveBuddy95]

HI guys,
for what I know it goes as follow:
cavern guide: has to be full cave trained and in full cave gear with doubles and in Active teaching status with one agency (PADI prefered) - no sidemount (so far ! ) don't think has to be cavern instructor
max divers/guide: 4:1
cavern limits: same as Florida and all cavern diving in general - minimum of 2000psi to start a cavern dive and 1200 minimum to exit with.

Of course a thorough briefing is mandatory.
As for divers/year, I am not aware of any stats here. Maybe if a LDS owner or longtime staff can answer this.

I remember reading an article from Mr Gerrard stating that since its opening to public, cenote Tajma Ha has received 20 to 30.000 cavern divers. It xould be around 2000/year. It sounds a lot but fairly possible.

Hope this helps and also that I am not off the charts with all this intel!

Saludos,

[CaveBuddy95]

HI guys,
for what I know it goes as follow, here in Mexico:
-cavern guide: has to be full cave trained and in full cave gear with doubles and in Active teaching status with one agency (PADI prefered) - no sidemount (so far ! ) --don't think has to be cavern instructor
-max divers/guide: 4:1
-cavern limits: same as Florida and all cavern diving in general - minimum of 2000psi to start a cavern dive and 1200 minimum to exit with.

Of course a thorough briefing is mandatory.
As for divers/year, I am not aware of any stats here. Maybe if a LDS owner or longtime staff can answer this.

I remember reading an article from Mr Gerrard stating that since its opening to public, cenote Tajma Ha has received 20 to 30.000 cavern divers. It would be around 2000/year. It sounds a lot but fairly possible.

Hope this helps and also that I am not off the charts with all this intel!

Saludos,

[Attchoum]

as jason said: in mexico it's full cave diver whit minimum of divemaster.
guide need double tank isolated, long hose, safety reel, 1 primary 2 backup.
client are forbidden to wear glove, snorkel, and knife.
officially guide need to stay whit the approuved permanent guide line (not always respected)
officially guide need to follow a cave guiding orientation course (apsa) but this rule is not apply anymore.

statistic I hear is about 10 000 cavern diver per year...

hope it help, if I can help more just contact me (philip even have my phone number)

[phillip1]

cool thanks, I think here it should be like it is in Mexico, hopefully we should be able to establish a cavern safety standard, it is badly needed.

[CaveBuddy95]

Phil, keep in mind this is not written black on white standards. These are accepted rules. There is no local 'authority' ruling cavern or cave diving for that mater.
As Etienne is saying, the APSA (local association) used to request guides to be cavern divemaster or something like that but has been inactive for a while now.