Please help us to prevent an accident in the DR

[phillip1]

I am writing this post in the hopes that NACD, NSS/CDS, TDI, IANTD directors and safety officers read this and help us out.
As you may know we are trying hard to inform the dive shops here about the dangers of untrained cave diving.
100% of untrained cave diving is done in the DR by dive shop instructors, with zero cave training, taking unsuspecting OW clients way past the cavern zone, we have installed waring signs in the Bayahibe area caves were most of this is going on to no avail.

Despite us installing warning signs, distributing informational letters and talking at length with the dive shops about the dangers involved it unfortunatly is still going on and no one takes this serious or cares at all as is seen in this video of A ScubFun instructor taking a group of OW divers past the warning sign and way past the cavern zone, this is obviously one of many dives like that, just that on this dive someone actually filmed.
Were they end up at the end of the video filming the air pocket is about 800-900 feet of penetration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCJta80tEsA&NR=1


If we could get all the cave training agencies to all sign a letter informing the dive shops of the dangers involved, not a reprimanding type of letter but just one that makes it clear that untrained cave diving is extremely dangerous and the limitations between cavern and cave, the dive shops here might take the warning more seriously.

That would really help us to prevent an accident, I have tried to get PADI to send such a letter but got zero response they apparently do not care, so I write this post in the hopes that the NACD, NSS/CDS, TDI, IANTD do care and help us out, I think that would make a very big difference as we are only a small group of cave divers and they apparently do not take us seriously.

Thank you

[Neptuno]

well, we steped over each other posts

[adam0321]

it amazes me how bold people can be with regards to the caves.... how could this seem like a good idea if you do not have training?

[phillip1]

Beats me, but what makes This much much worse is that this is not a group of OW divers deciding to go cave diving with no training, this is trained PADI instructors who know Full well the dangers of overhead diving and yet choose to blatantly ignore them and take totally unsuspecting OW clients on theses dives, the clients think this is like going in the ocean and that it is safe.
They are trusting they're lives to these instructors who are totally misleading them and knowingly putting they're lives at risk.

I think these instructors really think the safety rules do not apply to them, so far they have been lucky nothing has happened, but it is unfortunately only a matter of time before someone gets killed in Bayahibe unless the dive shops stop this.

I have personally witnessed 4 OW clients and an instructor come out of the major restriction that starts at the air dome (which is way past the cavern zone as it is), this is a jump and in addition to all the already disregarded safety rules they also of course had no line (this is a fairly big jump too), one light each etc.. I spoke with them afterwards at the dive shop and they all went in fairly far and turned around when they reached a half tank the agreed upon turn around!!!, it is insane!!!!
I spoke with the dive shop and the instructor at the time and he really thought that it was ok and that he had cave "experience"

[CaveBuddy95]

Don't know what to say to help but after spending the last fifteen years as a PADI instructor it was only after taking cave training (3 years ago) that I realised how deadly it can be. It may sound silly but, you don't know, what you don't know!

On another note, agencies are hoping an active member witness such a scene, with date, site's and divers name as well as name and credential # of the guide/DM or instructor. Once this is in their hands they can start a Quality Insurance process. It can be long but it's, I think unfortunately, the only way.

[phillip1]

My point exactly what you don't know you don't know, i think that if you start assiginingbalme etc.. It will be counter productive as no one really cares and it will take a long time for any sabctions if any to happen.
what I think would help and help fast or at least could not hurt, is having all the cave diving training agencies support a letter reminding LDSof the serious dangers involved, that would carry some widget and i think command respect and it will be taken seriously, maybe a wake up call.
PADI really does not care, the answer I got and I quote "if the PADI instructor was not taking the OW clients as part of a PADI sanctioned course, we can do nothing"
I really hope the various training agencies safety officers read this and help us out, it would cost nothing and could potentially really help.
We could once the letter is written and endorsed by the agencies have as many concerned cave divers as possible also sign the letter, that would be great.

I mean this is a major safety problem going on right now in the DR and with a tiny bit of effort you (NACD, NSSCDS, IANTD, TDI, and concerned cave divers) can really make a major difference in the safety of an entire country.

[timle]

I love how the end of the video is a close up on the stop sign. Classic!

You think that video would scare people. The lighting is so bad it seems like you can't see anything. Which is probably just the video but damn!

Its funny how so many divers say they don't know how risky it is until cave training, but every non diver that asks me about cave diving says "No way I would ever do that - even if I did scuba". What happens between that and Open Water training?

[Sludge]

What happens between that and Open Water training?

Open Water card = ten feet tall and bulletproof.

[stairman]

After watching Neptuno's youtube, It appeared they ended at the sign. I didnt realize they just made it look that way. Sadly itll take some fatalities to slow these tours but may never stop em.

[Kelly Jessop]

If we could get all the cave training agencies to all sign a letter informing the dive shops of the dangers involved, not a reprimanding type of letter but just one that makes it clear that untrained cave diving is extremely dangerous and the limitations between cavern and cave, the dive shops here might take the warning more seriously.

This has been done for Eagle's Nest here in the US,with little to no benefit. If you want success you need to target the tourists/guests,because once the money dries up the activity stops. If shops get a public bad reputation,and their business stops,then positive steps are usually taken. Good luck on your efforts because this is alarming,and can have a negative impact on legitimate practices.