How to gain Landowner permission to access cave?

[Unregistered User]

Landowners have very few reasons to allow you access and millions of reasons not to. One of these that is rarely mentioned is the potential for his cave being of such value that it should be protected. This means your great find has hindered his ability to use his property as he sees fit. A part of any waiver may include the promise of confidentiality regarding anything you find down there. I used this myself one time in a small cave (that eventually went nowhere) in Haile Plantation near Gainesville, FL. The landowner had a quail farm (for hunting), despised any form of government, and had heard stories of developments being halted due to some spotted owl or ivory-billed woodpecker being sighted on people's property. Just another avenue you should consider...

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I thought you were waiting to name it until you looked at the lead without any flow? Either way, anything beats James' blunder if I missed an obvious lead lol

The other lead will be named Mats Gloryhole... if it goes anywhere. Doncha wanna go there?

[LiteHedded]

you two are adorable

[jkaterenchuk]

. Beyond that, there are "hold harmless" contracts that we sometimes carry with us that helps ease some liability concerns.

This comes from experience working with landowners in AL, TN and VA, so Florida (or Pennsyltucky, perhaps?) landowners is not something I know much about although I'll guess that it's fairly similar. Hope this helps and feel free to add more details if you have them.

The system is actually in the North East so your comments regarding "hold harmless" might be of significant use. Would you have any examples that you could send me which I might use as a template?

John

[jkaterenchuk]

A number of landowner protection laws only apply if there is no money changing hands, something to keep in mind.

Generally be polite. Approach at first with only one or two people. Have your opening statement planned out, who you are, where you're from, what you do (cave diving), and what you'd like to do (dive their cave). You have about 20 seconds to make a first impression. Write down their name and contact information, give them a copy of yours.

A lot of folks first impression is that you're looking for "buried treasure" or you want to charge them for this somehow. Make it clear that it's a hobby/past time, and you're there for exploration. Offer to share any maps/photos/video etc... that you produce of the cave. If you have a DVD you can hand them that has some pretty passage on it that could be good if they show a lot of interest in it. If not it might just turn them off to the idea. If you're in an area with a lot of caves, getting on good terms with one landowner can open the door to other spots.

Most of all be polite and appreciative (as you should be), don't ever come across like it's your right to dive there. That'll piss people off faster than anything. And be prepared to talk for a while, about anything, they have to decide that you're ok. Ask them about the history of the land, how long they've been there. You come up with some interesting stories sometimes.

After gaining permission you still have a few things to do like stopping by and telling them about it afterward if they aren't there watching. Ask about things like where to park, is it ok to drive through the grass to get near the water, etc... Be discreet when changing clothes. And common sense stuff like don't litter, and leave gates like you found them. If you think it's worth going back ask them about arranging to come back, do you need to call or email first?

Also if it's a new cave it never hurts to ask them what they'd like to name it, or name it after them.

Some good suggestions for me to consider how to utilize.

John

[jkaterenchuk]

Go to the landowner with the following in hand: copies of all your certification cards, some maps, photos taken in caves, and liability waivers. If he seems to balk, offer to leave them with him and come back in a week or so after he's had time to look them over.

Tell him you'll be happy to give him copies of any maps you draw and photos you take.

Never thought about the photo or video suggestion.

Thanks, John

[Half-Fast]

Showing affiliation with some legitimate organization might help, also. NSS, possibly, and show a journal or two. Or, if you can, show you're affiliated with a university or a state agency or some sort.

The point is to show that you're a mature person doing scientific exploration, not some some crazed idiot seeking thrills by cheating death in a cave. (I'm assuming you have no moral objections to lying as necessary on this point.)

And be sure to name the cave, or some important feature, after the landownder.

[Webmaster]

Asking permission is best done in person, or at least by phone if possible. Letters or email are impersonal and it's much easier for them to say no. Unless you're Gerald Moni, in which case it's very easy.

Showing up with printed liability releases and copies of any landowner protection laws for that state are a plus.

Garretts Nasty Crack it is.

[jlillest]

In Wakulla County, NEVER take the wife, you will be stuck with them and still not be able to dive.

Or maybe this would make you a better diver, because you'd want to spend ALL your time underwater and the landowner would be so thankful for taking his wife off his hands that he grants unlimited access and buys all your new stage bottles.

I've checked for liability waivers for TN & VA and coming up blank. For Pennsyltucky, check with a local caving grotto. They can probably also help with info on the state's cave protection laws. I know there are several strong grottos in the state and probably would be glad to help you with advice and exploration of any accessible sections of dry cave that are related to the spring.

[OFG-1]

The other lead will be named Mats Gloryhole... if it goes anywhere. Doncha wanna go there?

Hell no!!, I do not want to be in the same county as anything referred to as "Mat's Gloryhole"