Underwater Speleology (UWS)

[Jim Wyatt]

The treasurer talked about how and why the UWS loses money at the last BoD meeting. The way UWS loses money is simple. It costs X to print and mail out the magazine. Revenue for advertising is far below these two costs, $6440 below as of June 30, 2010 for the year.

Jim Womble's printing company prints the magazine at a great deal to the CDS and no where near retail. He does it at or very near his cost. Jim Womble is a long time member of the NSS-CDS and is currently secretary for the NFSA. The equation for losing money tracked strictly by accounting for funds is very simple.

Clearly the esoteric value of UWS is greater to some than to others, and this value cannot be quantified. Some feel the magazine should be printed in spite of the fact it has lost over $6000.00 in this fiscal/calendar year. Some feel it should be a be a business decision in that if it loses money it should stop. Others think the magazine should continue regardless, and that the esoteric value gained by us all having a nice magazine to read and to show off trumps the $6400 loss. There will never be agreement on this issue. I love the magazine & I hate to see the CDS losing what will amount to almost $10,000.00 this year by printing & mailing it.

[Cindy]

The treasurer talked about how and why the UWS loses money at the last BoD meeting. The way UWS loses money is simple. It costs X to print and mail out the magazine. Revenue for advertising is far below these two costs, $6440 below as of June 30, 2010 for the year.

Jim Womble's printing company prints the magazine at a great deal to the CDS and no where near retail. He does it at or very near his cost. Jim Womble is a long time member of the NSS-CDS and is currently secretary for the NFSA. The equation for losing money tracked strictly by accounting for funds is very simple.

Clearly the esoteric value of UWS is greater to some than to others, and this value cannot be quantified. Some feel the magazine should be printed in spite of the fact it has lost over $6000.00 in this fiscal/calendar year. Some feel it should be a be a business decision in that if it loses money it should stop. Others think the magazine should continue regardless, and that the esoteric value gained by us all having a nice magazine to read and to show off trumps the $6400 loss. There will never be agreement on this issue. I love the magazine & I hate to see the CDS losing what will amount to almost $10,000.00 this year by printing & mailing it.

I sent several ideas on how the UWS can make money in a letter to the BOD and only one board member replied. I'll redirect one here. 1. Make it a requirement that every instructor participate in the UWS in some way, either an ad, articles or financial donation. Another idea would be to have an outside group take on the advertising for the magazine. Overlooking hotels, eating places, local dive shops has been a mistake we all have been making.
You don't LOSE $6000 a year. The UWS is and continues to be the best advertising and outreach venue the CDS has. It is given out at functions, sent to officials from the State to the Water management BOD. Believe me, out of sight is out of mind. You are also dealing with the reality of competitive market, as long as the other agencies produce a magazine by not producing one you are admitting to failure. Placing the magazine entirely on the internet may save money but again, no outreach, admission of poor financial status, no issue for collectors, no place for current techniques to be studied. There are so many things the UWS could be used for this is has been failing in because in my opinion lack of imagination and poor support of the BOD and the instructors.

[TONY CHANEY]

So, since we are now saving a lot of money without the hard copy of UWS, has the membership cost decreased?

[Rich]

So, since we are now saving a lot of money without the hard copy of UWS, has the membership cost decreased?

Tony, they're still making the hard copy and long may it last! If you're in the area stop by CEE for a free copy, we're a CDS Business affiliate and we have a ton of back issues for free also.....

Safe diving,

Rich

[gasdiver]

What about a compromise? Use a lower cost method of printing such as news print instead of high gloss paper. The full color photo's are great, but I would go to a web link to look at the full color photos if the news print photo was interesting.

[TONY CHANEY]

Tony, they're still making the hard copy and long may it last! If you're in the area stop by CEE for a free copy, we're a CDS Business affiliate and we have a ton of back issues for free also.....

Safe diving,

Rich

Sorry but I just checked my membership and it has expired. It expired at about the same time as all the talk about ending the hard copy. I really did not add to or address the battle already started over hard or computer copy. So, that leaves me with a new question. Why give away free copies, to include "a ton" of back issues when we, as a group, could sell them for as low as a buck? I would pay that or even more to aid it keeping it going.

[Walter Pickel]

The treasurer talked about how and why the UWS loses money at the last BoD meeting. The way UWS loses money is simple. It costs X to print and mail out the magazine. Revenue for advertising is far below these two costs, $6440 below as of June 30, 2010 for the year.

Jim in many ways this is not a loss but cost of goods sold (COGs)....I appreciate you bringing out some numbers for everyone to see. I think it helps others understand the state of the Section.

[Shadowjack]

Jim W,

Is there a way we could have a ballpark figure for Members to Magazine ratio?
Right now I think the numbers are:
850 current members + current adds = -$6000 for the UWS.

I don’t know or need to know the percentage of what my membership goes to but it would help to have a goal of members to keep UWS. I know this number would change say if 200 people decided to place adds.

If it was 1100 members+ current adds = BREAK EVEN for the UWS ?
Or
1100 members + 200 new adds = Full color ADM quality type UWS ?

Just how many members does it need to keep UWS?

Does the CDS need to have a membership drive to get the last XXX numbers of members to join to keep things running?

I have a really NASTY idea to keep membership up and going. Since everyone says the CDS is all about the instructors, have them required to meet a quota of new members or renews per year to keep their instructor status- ( 77 listed on the CDS website ) so if each instructor had 12 people renew or new sign up under their name they keep their status. That would be 1 new or 1 renew per month. That would give the CDS 924 members per year ( not counting the multi year or life members ). How hard would it be to have 1 person per month?

Eric Deister

[Sludge]

How hard would it be to have 1 person per month?

As easy as that sounds, it's not realistic. Asking each instructor to get four new members a year sounds more like it.

My instructor hounded us all the time to join, and to attend the annual workshops whenever possible.

[Half-Fast]

Jim W,


Since everyone says the CDS is all about the instructors, have them required to meet a quota of new members or renews per year to keep their instructor status- ( 77 listed on the CDS website ) so if each instructor had 12 people renew or new sign up under their name they keep their status.

Eric Deister

I've been away from cave diving for a while, so maybe philosophies have changed. Back in the day, the philosophy regarding training was that it wasn't our purpose to recruit people into cave diving; rather, we wanted to intercept those who were going to dive in caves, make them aware of the dangers, and make training available to them.

Maybe that's no longer the cave community's attitude. But if it is, laying a new member quota on instructors will encourage active recruiting of new cave divers, which might not be such a great thing.

And frankly, trying to make instructors recruit new CDS members without addressing changes that might make membership more beneficial to these new divers, won't work anyway.

Before we lay this on the instructors, it seems to me it would be better to try to enlarge the membership roles from those who are already active cave divers but haven't joined, or have left, the CDS. There are lots of cave divers out there who don't belong to the section. Many have given up in disgust over the petty politics and squabbles that seem to have plagued the organization forever.