Roberta Swicegood

[Walter Pickel]

Joe,

I disagree with your assumed statements about the effectiveness of recent IUCRR reports. I am biased since I was involved in the recovery of the divers at Waynes World a couple of years ago. We worked very hard to produce a valuabel report that could be read and understood leading to analysis.

However, I do agree that some recent events (> 2008 ) have selectively not been submitted to the IUCRR for dissemination for numerous reasons.

Sent from my Htcclay's Superfly G1 using Tapatalk

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Fortunately for us unenlightened we have fellas like you superbugman and jj1987 to give us clarity. Thank you.

You welcome, always happy to 'help'. Its what I'm here for, and I'm glad you've found it incredibly usefull. Surely the world is clearer now, than ever before.

[FW]

Let's try to stay on topic....

[Jay]

Thanks Forrest! That is more detail then the stuff I read years ago.
I forgot the sump was that deep. 51 degrees, 70-100 foot depth, rip in drysuit, heavy gloves, breathing air (I assume).
Yikes!! Not many people could survive that.

[FW]

I also found it interesting that this might have been the first accident involving a trained cave diver.

[Webmaster]

Thanks Forrest! That is more detail then the stuff I read years ago.
I forgot the sump was that deep. 51 degrees, 70-100 foot depth, rip in drysuit, heavy gloves, breathing air (I assume).
Yikes!! Not many people could survive that.

When folks survive something something going wrong is not usually when you hear about it.

[Cindy]

I have my copy now. If anyone else is interested, PM me with an email address, and I will forward it.

Send me one please Forrest. cindyb3007@yahoo.com Thank you, Don't worry I won't get in the guess how old Forrest is contest. You already told me.

[Webmaster]

Look on the 2nd page of posts, he put up a link to the document.

[FFDiver221]

All of the facts was very interesting and one thing really caught my attention and that was the line. It was mention of using knots to determine distance and direction. We use this system on our search ropes becuase visibilty in a fire is zero. While my future lures me to become a cave diver and I read posts to learn facts and real world experiences of new and experienced cave divers. One thing I have wondered and wondered again after reading this and I know it could ignite a firestorm, no pun intended. I know it would be a small entanglement hazard but in my mind should be easy to recitify. If a diver used a short piece of line that was attached with a caribiner to a d ring and another caribiner attached to a permanent guide would help prevent a diver from loosing the line. It could be moved from section to section at tie off points and if it got entanged the last resort would be to just take it off at the d ring. Just an idea and not meant in any way to question traning methods!!! we use a similiar system when searching large structures to prevent using the line and in a building there exists many entanglement hazards and we train to deal with it. We do this by training in a safe environment and having no visibilty simulated with mask blanks in our scba. We take several layers of window tinting together and they are cut to fit our scba masks. This makes it very easy to have no visibilty and can be changed to simulate various degrees based on the amount of layers installed. It works for fire however not for sure in a cave, just wondering. One thing I have pushed and trust me it was a battle to get people to look at their air in thirds. People look at from the perspective of staying in a building until the low air alarm went off and it is dangerous. If it takes three fourths of your air to get in then one fourth will not get a person out. More are looking it to be a safer way to do fire atacks and searches. Hope I dont offend anyone as it is not intended to. Any feedback would be appreciated!!!!

[Randy Thornton]

All of the facts was very interesting and one thing really caught my attention and that was the line. It was mention of using knots to determine distance and direction. We use this system on our search ropes becuase visibilty in a fire is zero. While my future lures me to become a cave diver and I read posts to learn facts and real world experiences of new and experienced cave divers. One thing I have wondered and wondered again after reading this and I know it could ignite a firestorm, no pun intended. I know it would be a small entanglement hazard but in my mind should be easy to recitify. If a diver used a short piece of line that was attached with a caribiner to a d ring and another caribiner attached to a permanent guide would help prevent a diver from loosing the line. It could be moved from section to section at tie off points and if it got entanged the last resort would be to just take it off at the d ring. Just an idea and not meant in any way to question traning methods!!! we use a similiar system when searching large structures to prevent using the line and in a building there exists many entanglement hazards and we train to deal with it. We do this by training in a safe environment and having no visibilty simulated with mask blanks in our scba. We take several layers of window tinting together and they are cut to fit our scba masks. This makes it very easy to have no visibilty and can be changed to simulate various degrees based on the amount of layers installed. It works for fire however not for sure in a cave, just wondering. One thing I have pushed and trust me it was a battle to get people to look at their air in thirds. People look at from the perspective of staying in a building until the low air alarm went off and it is dangerous. If it takes three fourths of your air to get in then one fourth will not get a person out. More are looking it to be a safer way to do fire atacks and searches. Hope I dont offend anyone as it is not intended to. Any feedback would be appreciated!!!!

Dear FFDiver221, welcome to the forum. I've heard other people suggest similar concepts of hooking off to the line in one way or another, but I think the bottom line is that it would probably be way too restrictive and way too much work to clip on and off. As cave divers we will "OK" the line with our fingers if we get in a silt out situation, which tends to work quite well. It gives us the ability to move quite quickly, move around obstructions, and doesn't become an entanglement hazard in and of itself like a carabiner does.

I think you will appreciate the concept once you get in your cave class and experience the low viz drills in person!

Hope you enjoy your journey to become a cave diver!

Regards,
Randy