Breathing off valves, Who does it?

[diveongas]

Apparently, many believe that this technique has merit. I'm curious to hear how Instructors teach this. Would also like to hear from students, that practiced this during training, what they were actually taught?

[SuPrBuGmAn]

You breath off the cascade of bubbles, don't suck on the valve. Its very inefficient, and I dunno if it'll ever help you get out of a cave. I'd guess... hell no. If it were my last choice, I'd try it.

[phillip1]

Apparently, many believe that this technique has merit. I'm curious to hear how Instructors teach this. Would also like to hear from students, that practiced this during training, what they were actually taught?

it is a last resort technique, have you ever actually tried it? it is pretty much only doable realistically in SM, BM would be extremely hard.
I am a student and have been practicing this at least once a month or more for either an entire OW ocean dive or in my pool. It really can't hurt to know how to do this, as I have stated before if you know your valves it is really easy and safe to do, why do you seem so outraged at this? any survival skill is worth it no matter how unlikely the emergency might be and this one is very easy so why not?

[diveongas]

it is a last resort technique, have you ever actually tried it? it is pretty much only doable realistically in SM, BM would be extremely hard.
I am a student and have been practicing this at least once a month or more for either an entire OW ocean dive or in my pool. It really can't hurt to know how to do this, as I have stated before if you know your valves it is really easy and safe to do, why do you seem so outraged at this? any survival skill is worth it no matter how unlikely the emergency might be and this one is very easy so why not?

Well, I'm kinda curious. For example, if you are doing this SM, are you:
1. Relasing both tank clips completely, and holding it out in front of you "No-mount" style
2. Releasing only the back clip, then shoving it out "No-mount" style
3. If 1 or 2, do you rig your first stage up, rather than down to facilitate this manuever
4. Relase both tank clips and straddle the cylinder mid body (bottom back/ valve facing forward and up)
5. If slung like a stage, is the cylinder's stage rigging been adjusted such that you rock the tank forward, turning your head to the side to breathe

I wouldn't say that I'm outraged, but I try to avoid techniques with increased risk and use those with less risk. I'd rather swim an extra stage rather than even contemplate doing this. Long ago (decades) I remember a friend taking OW describing breathing from a free flowing regulaor, (PADI) thinking why not just sling a small tank (pony with reg) and not even worry about it.

[Tegg]

Was a second thread on this topic really necessary?

[caverkevin]

I'm lost as to why this topic needs two threads? Does anyone really teach valve breathing as a viable exit strategy? I would like some examples of cave instructors that teach this on a regular basis.

In your other thread you elude to this starting in Mexico. Pretty sure this technique was being used a few decades before cave diving in Mexico. Back in the days of having to do push-ups on the beach wearing doubles to pass a NAUI OW class.

I first learned about it during my NAUI instructor program. Teaching some form of valve breathing is useful for instilling confidence under water. Being able to "slurp" air from water can be a great confidence booster. I am not taking ripping a reg off a tank way back in a cave. More like the student leaning over to get their face underwater in a few feet of OW.

These threads strike me more of you trying to make a point. Not so much of sitting a home with a burning question that can be answered by the general cave diving public. Would you mind getting down to the bee's knees of why you really started two threads about this? What is bothering you??

Cheers!!

Kevin

[lamont]

You don't need to know how to breathe off a valve.

You might need to breathe off a free-flowing regulator (just like you should have been taught in OW1) if you have an issue like a stuck exhaust valve, mouthpiece comes off, or otherwise have a water-intrusion problem into the reg. In that case, manually free-flow it, and suck off the bubbles and it'll deliver less water.

[diveongas]

These threads strike me more of you trying to make a point. Not so much of sitting a home with a burning question that can be answered by the general cave diving public. Would you mind getting down to the bee's knees of why you really started two threads about this? What is bothering you??

Sorry, my bad. First thread was about potential danger, this one about how this is done, if you're going to do it. I geuss it could have stayed one thread.

I'm most curious how practitioners manage the cylinder, to be a viable means to exit a cave. Maybe it would be interesting to others.

[phillip1]

cylinders stay exactly as they are, I dive a Razor and I can pull my tanks if needed forward and pull the valves upward, very easy and I can actually swim ok like this.
When I dove the dillo or Nomad same thing, a bit less comfortable than with the Razor but no real problem other than having to twist my neck a bit more to get to the valves, right or left is the same.

Oh and another thing I use thin necklace size bungee, it is more flexible and better IMHO than the thick bungee that comes with the Nomad or Dillo and hooks around valves way better too, and is not about to break anytime soon, unless you plan on walking around out of the water with tanks on, in which case BM is better.
Again, this is just a skill, and an absolute last resort, you would in escalating order: breath of the free flowing reg and feather the valve, next option if previous one is not possible: cut the hose and feather the valve and if for some reason the cut hose solution is not possible then as a last resort then breath of the valve or ...die.

A more plausible scenario would be switching regs underwater for whatever reason and you are out of breath take one from the valve real quick if needed.
I suggest you try it (with valves you know) and then come back and post about your experience, if you dive SM, BM this would be really hard to do but a good skill to know nonetheless, and if anything would increase your chances of survival if such a thing is ever needed (super highly unlikely, but so is a tank oring failure).

[caverkevin]

I had too much espresso tonight, so here we go....

Breathing a tank valve for a protracted length of time would never be a viable solution to anything. As it generally needs both hands to preform the task. Getting out of a cave, one hand is either going to be following a line or lighting the passage. Not much is left to hold the cylinder close to the mouth and open the valve. Where valve breathing may prove to be a benefit is in the control of the valve knob. As this technique generally requires a high degree of skill to just crack open the valve and not waste gas.

As regs generally don't fail closed, but instead open. Being able to control the valve and debit just enough gas would be a benefit. One could conceivably operate (feather) a stage or SM bottle that is clipped to a harness one handed. Breathing in just enough gas for a full breath, while not wasting gas needed to exit.

To some people the teaching of skills that appear useless, like breathing a free flowing reg or valve breathing, may seem like a waste of time. To the instructor they may yield increased comfort and control in the students underwater abilities. Which is the whole point of training in the first place, to improve your diving skills.

OK, I think my coffee is winding down. Good nite y'all!!

K