open water divers at jackson blue.

[adam0321]

so today I was diving jb. iw as extremely crowded and even had about 8-10 cave divers in there. On my second dive i went in about 20' and relized that I had not put anything on my mask and went back to get some de fog. On my way out i saw a guy with a single 80 and a pony bottle entering the cavern. i motioned him to go top side. once on the surface i asked my girlfriend to get me some defog from the car and asked the ow diver if he was cave trained. He said he was not and that him and his son were working on there advanced ow. i told him he should probaly stay out of the cave and he said they would. I got my mask strait and went back down. As I entered the cave sure enough they were well into the cavern. I stayed behind them for a bit and watched as the almost got themselves tangled in the line numerious times. there were to primary lines tied into the gold line. they swam ontop of them and numerious times got themselves tangled. I followed them all the way back the sign. as they stopped to read it i swam in front of them and pointed to the sign vigeriously and motioned them to leave the cave. they nodded and sat there for a minute. I decided i was going to swim further into the cave as i entered the cave i looked back and saw lights follow me. i turned my light off and waited to see if they kept comming in. they got almost tot he first break down before again i turned on my light and sat infri=ont of them and nearly phyc=sically pushed them out of the cave. i waited till they got all the way till the cavern and consinued my dive. there were numerious ow divers there today. these ones were in bc's single 80's and pistol grip lights. when will people learn? i thought jb was closed to all but cave trained divers??

[Herbie]

Awesome job Adam, you might have just saved someones life today. i do not know what the OW restrictions are at JB but you definitely did the right thing. My hoods off to you.

[RN]

They opened up the park to all divers a couple of years ago. Not a very good idea since the basin isn't really great for OW diving (12' max at the cavern opening). I do use the basin for confined water sessions, but we stay out of the overhead. I'll talk to some people and see how difficult it would be to change the rules to OW divers with instructors only (I'm not the only one that uses it for confined water).

[adam0321]

well i was not looking for praise but thank you very much. being a fairly new diver to jb its nice to know I am not overstepping my boundries. i was just posting to find out the rules on ow divers in the park. pretty sure thay came from a boat..

[Kelly Jessop]

They opened up the park to all divers a couple of years ago. Not a very good idea since the basin isn't really great for OW diving (12' max at the cavern opening). I do use the basin for confined water sessions, but we stay out of the overhead. I'll talk to some people and see how difficult it would be to change the rules to OW divers with instructors only (I'm not the only one that uses it for confined water).

Rob-do they have a no light rule that every where else has?

[DA Aquamaster]

I do use the basin for confined water sessions, but we stay out of the overhead. I'll talk to some people and see how difficult it would be to change the rules to OW divers with instructors only (I'm not the only one that uses it for confined water).

It's an interesting phenomenon and I'm interested in your thoughts and experiences.

There are two sides to the debate surrounding the practice of allowing access to an area with a cavern/cave with instructors only.

One is that by having a (cave trained) OW instructor take them there, students can get a first class briefing on how easy it is for non-cave trained divers to die in a cavern or cave.

The other is that a number of OW and AOW students will not absorb that lesson and will in fact be a bit bolder as they have already been "there". The real morons may also include the "don't ever do this" lecture from their instructor as a form of cave training. (Same basic reasoning as Adoph saying he was practically a tech diver because he put his Galileo into deco.)

It is primarily an issue in systems where someone is not there 24/7 to monitor divers and prevent access and to enforce any no light rules. However while it might not be practical for an OW diver to even get in the water at a system when someone is there to monitor c-cards and prevent OW divers from getting in without an instructor, the mis application of the "training" and the "there" where the OW diver decides they are qualified to go can generalize to other non policed systems.

[RN]

Rob-do they have a no light rule that every where else has?

No, they don't. Since most of the year there's no one there to monitor things, there's no way to enforce this.


DA, I'm not talking about taking untrained students into the cavern zone. That's not what I use the basin for. I take OW students there for the confined water sessions. We never do OW check out dives there because it's not an appropriate location for it (not enough depth). I've trained a few OW divers there and haven't had any of them go back to dive there. I do make all my OW students watch "A Deceptively Easy Way to Die" and the Rescue 911 episode with Woody Jasper, though.

I agree that taking OW divers to places like Eagle's Nest for AOW Deep dives is inappropriate. I don't have a problem with training OW divers in basins, though, as long as entry into the overhead is not done.

[adam0321]

I dont know why anyone who is not cave trained would want to dive there in the first place. I know it clear but no depth and really nothing to see. I work at a local dive shop in Panama city and alot of the instructors there go to vortex for there open water dives. I know I hear alot of students and divers in general talk about how they "cave dive all the time" and are barely ow qualified. I am the only cave diver who works at the shop and often find myself explainng the dangers of the sport for the untrained. My words often fall on deaf ears and at the end of my little rant the lead instructor in the shop tells a story about how she was diving at ginnie and went into a cave and didint really see the big deal. I dont understand how people can have such little concern and respect for the caves....

[Line Squirrel]

I dont understand how people can have such little concern and respect for the caves....

I'm not being flippant but the bottom line is...

They don't know and the don't know they don't know. They think they know but they don't know.

[adam0321]

talk about redundancy in cave divers hu?