I don't. But other people seem to know I am. That's what worries me.Originally Posted by RN
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I don't. But other people seem to know I am. That's what worries me.
Last edited by jj1987; 05-27-2010 at 09:33 PM.
The first time I realized I was just a little narced was my 2nd dive in Blue Spring, Orange City. I was only 80' but the flow was pretty significant and it was work to get there. The scary part was I had felt the same way earlier in the day during my 1st dive there but didn't know what it was. I did the Belize Blue Hole on air and descended into the cavern at 140'+. I knew I was narced there and it wasn't a pleasant feeling. At 80' it was scary to think I was narced without realizing it and how I would have reacted to something in that mental condition. I fully realize that I'm likely a little narced during every dive I do in JB but I've learned to deal with it. I know I'm a little narced at 120' but it's also something I can deal with because I realize it and am more attentive. My wife gets narced at 90'. In JB she deals with it. In systems she's not as familiar with she needs a little bit of helium to allow her to feel comfortable enough to do the dive.
Everyone is different. Everyone has different limits. I do think that 150' on air is too deep for anyone. When the $h!t hits the fan, can you deal with it at 150' on air efficiently enough to make it a non-issue? I'm not so sure I would be able to.
Rob Neto
Chipola Divers, LLC
Check out my new book - Sidemount Diving - An Almost Comprehensive Guide
"Survival depends on being able to suppress anxiety and replace it with calm, clear, quick and correct reasoning..." -Sheck Exley
It's difficult to look at it in such a black and white manner as for me there is more to it than just being 1000-2000' ft back in a cave.
For exmaple, the line to Henely's castle is fairly straight forward, there is basically no flow and no navigational decisions made below the jump at a depth of about 60'. The biggest challenge is exiting through the low spot at 135'. The big risk there is potentially low viz if it a) got stirred up on the way in, or b) if you are trailing an a team mate is stirring it up on the way out, and that is a risk that cave divers train to manage from Cavern class forward.
In short it is deep, but the potential surprises are limited and the demands should be manageabld with the degree of narcosis encountered. And if not the diver will (or should) realize it up front.
On the other hand, on an offshore wreck dive, both the viz and the current can vary and can change with little or no warning. In some areas not only the speed of the current can change, but also the direction - with for example a 180 degree change in direction in a few minutes in areas affected by tidal flow. So...there is potentially a need for constant evalutaion and re-assessment of the conditions and the potential to re-adjust or modify the dive plan on the fly - decisions that you do not want to make while narc'd.
A common OW wreck dive accident scenario is where a diver swims away from the ascent line either upcurrent or down current in no current or very light current then finds the current has switched direction or increased to the point he or she cannot reach the ascent line. This becomes a major issue either because the deco gas was dropped near the anchor line, or due to the lack of an upline and the potential to drift out of sight down current during a free swimming deco (on the deco gas if the diver kept it on them, or on back gas if the diver did not).
Narcosis then impairs the diver's judgment and they do something stupid - like using all the back gas reserve they could have used for deco in the effort to try to get upcurrent to the deco gas or ascent line, effectively removing the option of a longer deco on back gas with or without an upline. The end result is a near OOG ascent a lots of missed deco and a serious DCS hit or AGE.
This type of bad decision is likely in that narcosis often causes a diver to experience perceptual narrowing and focus on resolving the immediate problem - getting to the ascent line, even when that no longer makes any sense.
In that regard, I think the risks of going to 150' on air or 25% nitrox in Henleys are potentially far less than the risks of a 150' dive on air or 25% on an offshore wreck in places where the viz or current may create a need to amend the dive plan and/or abort the dive if conditions are not what was expected.
I think you have misinterpreted my remarks. I never intended to imply I was a "better" diver, because I dove air. I simply responded to the question that the original poster asked, then I was flamed from the divers that didn't agree with me
But just to be explicitly clear.... I didn't dive air to 170' because I think I'm a better diver and don't need mix, or that it's tied to some mentality of being a bad ass. I made that dive on air, because I knew my limits, and my partners limits. And we executed a dive that we were both comfortable with.
Honestly, I could care less what people on this board think about me. But I do take it personal when someone implies that I do dives to pump my ego. It's incorrect, and paints an inaccurate description of my personality. And if you knew me, you would agree.
I did a 225' cave dive which was a clean up dive just to pickup a bottom mix bottle, scooter, and the bailout bottles along the way.
My END for the dive was 130'.
I was really happy at 225' when Andrew A. swam over and handed my scooter to me because I was buzzed out of my mind and probably would have never remembered where I left it. (Insert The scooter was 10' away from me on the upstream line)
Do what works for you.
END of 100' works for me on mission based dives where high degree of concentration is required.
Paul H. does dives to 180-200 on air. He has 40 years of cave diving experience and probably performs actions instinctively. I stopped at 130' at the Pit in Mexico.
Different things work for different people do what works for you.
Good Luck
This
is contradicted by this
Okay, not really. You probably meant that you could not care less, though. In which case it would be contradictory.
Chris
I was never good in english Class either.
You are correct. I should have included the word "not" in that phrase. Thanks for taking the time to correct my grammar. I have a tendency to be rather lazy on online forums, and always fight the urge to use acronyms in place of phrases, i.e., OMFG or WOPR. I'll try to do better next time.
However, even after ur rather witty correction, I still fail 2 C the contradiction.
I take it personally when someone implies something about my ego. This implication, does not have to be from this discussion board to offend me. In other words, it's a generality. Therefore, if you are pumping my gas (outdated comparison, but you get the picture), and imply something about my ego, I would take it personally. The fact that the person who implied this, is a member of the Cave Diver's Forum, is irrelevant and coincidental.
In addition, please try to understand the context that these phrases we're written in. My quote regarding me not caring about what people on this board think was driven by the negativity I received after my initial posting on this thread, and was directed to those who made ignorant comments about me and my diving decisions.
Mmmm WOPR....
I obviously have no idea what that means?...
All I wanted was so insight to Hendleys and it turns into this. Makes me to NOT want ask ask any future questions. My question was answered in the first page and answered well. The rest of this thread belongs in the history books never to be read again.
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