Cave Diver Training Length

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Took a little more than a year...

I'm glad I took cavern in doubles... I was relatively new in them, but I had zero issues with the conversion. Had maybe 30 dives on them before class... and honestly, would have been just fine after the 2nd dive :P I liked being able to start my overhead training in the same gear that I'd be finishing in...

There was a considerable learning curve with SM for me though :/ all good now.

[rjack]

I also think cavern should be taken in a single unless the diver has considerable experience in doubles. There's a lot of new stuff to be learned, and it's no time to be learning a new configuration on top of that. Jacket BC, AIR2, however you've been diving in open water, should be your setup for the cavern course.

See, I would posit that this person should get familar with doubles in OW. Then take cavern in doubles. This is not suitable gear for a beginner to stumble into a cave with - and many caverns can turn into caves very fast.

Oh and it was about 18months from intro to full cave for me.

[argyris]

Almost one year, but still learning since then.

[bletso]

My dive buddy and I took 7 grueling days in which I questioned why was I there on several occasions. It worked for us, but I wouldn't recommend it as a general rule. One has to be ready, both physically and properly equipped. The psychological aspects can't be prepped for as one is dealing with a whole new set of unknowns.

By the end of the week I don't know who was more beat up, us or the instructor. By far a most humbling experience.

Dale

[Jay]

Cavern and intro on one trip. Full on the next trip (just under 6 months later.). My third dive after full cert was a scooter stage dive in JB. (The second was a swim stage in JB, same route, both with my cave 'mentors')
I already had over 1000 OW dives including trimix and lots of wrecks.

[DA Aquamaster]

An excellent point indeed and perhaps a bit of a double edged sword I suppose. One diver coming from the warm clear waters of the gulf stream used to diving the jacket BC and the air II might be treated one way. Another diver that has only dove doubles for years and hails from the NE or the Pac NW, familiar with diving extremely low vis and high currents may well be a horse of a different color.

However, when I worked with students, it always seemed to boil down to their attitudes. Those that come in with a degree of humility, and a willingness to learn "generally" seemed to be the easiest to teach and came out better in the end.

I agree that it should depend on the individual involved.

I took Cavern and Intro together after about 15 years of doubles diving and about 10 years of technical decompression diving. Doing Cavern as well as intro in doubles was a no brainer decision as switching back to a single tank would have been a major PITA and counter productive as it makes much more sense to train the way you plan to fight, so to speak.

However, I also took my Cavern class with an experienced OW instructor in a single tank and poodle jacket. She did ok but she herself noted and commented on the rock solid stability doubles can give after buddying with me in lights out line and air share drills. She recognized the value in getting proficient in doubles before returing for Intro.

At the other end of the spectrum we also had a gentleman in the class who attempted the class making his first dives in doubles and it was an unmitigated disaster. The instructor should not have allowed it in the first place and should have switched him back into a single tank after the first dive or two when the problem was obviously not going to be resolved in the next day and a half. In a single, he may of at least had a chance of successfully completing Cavern.

Neither of my class mates advanced to Intro on that same trip - but neither of them were ready for Intro either. As more or less a transition from technical wreck diving, I did both Cavern and Intro in one 4 day session and was told I was ready for full cave if I wanted to pursue it at that point. I chose to wait a year or so however to build experience at the intro level and polish my newly acquired intro to cave skills prior to adding in the complex navigation skills that come with Apprentice and Full.

When it came time to finish full cave, I again chose to do it in a single 4 day session as I was going into it with a reasonable degree of experience at the intro level.

In that regard I agree with Sludge that there is a great deal of value in consolidating newly acquired skills before moving on to additonal skills. How that applies to combining Cavern and Intro or combining Apprentice and Full then depends on:

1) how many of the Cavern skills are reallly "new", and
2) how much experience the diver has at the Intro level to provide a solid base for the subsequent full cave skills.

I do know a few zero to hero divers, but the smart ones made a decision to stay very conservative and dive at essentially the intro level until they acquired significantly more experience.

[Tegg]

Interesting responses so far. Thanks for the honesty. Hopefully more post.

[BabyDuck]

i knew i wanted to cave dive right from ow dive #2. i took cavern & intro in singles at dive #100. i was diving every weekend, one in the quarry & the next driving to the caves. the loose 'plan' was likely gonna be to do app/full in a year or so from cavern/intro. i wanted to do adv nit/deco proc that fall & finish cave in the spring.

well, we plan, god laughs - had a baby instead & didn't finish until jan 09, 3 years after i started cave diving & 4 years after i started diving.

i don't recommend that as a way to control the speed of taking cave classes...

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I know a couple people who only want to dive caverns, and have no interest at all in diving at even the intro level. Sure, a cavern can become a cave relatively easy, but the divers I reffer to only dive some of the fair weather caverns anyway.

I think cavern has a place, alone. I certainly have no issue with people who want to pair it off with Intro though.

[Spd 135]

I did Cavern / Intro in 1999 with Pat Watson.
I did Apprentice and Cave with Lamar Hires in 2002.