Rules of Engagement?? what have you done?

[Marc Bryan]

It really leaves a bad taste in the mouths of someone who might just need a firm talking to and shown where to seek training.

If the GIANT signs on land at the entrance to devil's, the grim reaper signs in the cavern, self preservation, and just plain common sense hasn't worked, I fail to see where a firm talking to would help. some people will just never get it.

We have cave divers that are partially trained exceed their levels all the time, and they OVIOUSLY know better. It has been happening for a long time, and will continue to happen for a long time.

[jj1987]

really?

No, I was being facetious.

If the GIANT signs on land at the entrance to devil's, the grim reaper signs in the cavern, self preservation, and just plain common sense hasn't worked, I fail to see where a firm talking to would help. some people will just never get it.

We have cave divers that are partially trained exceed their levels all the time, and they OVIOUSLY know better. It has been happening for a long time, and will continue to happen for a long time.

Correct, nothing you can do at this point other than set a good example and not go out of your way to get an assault charge against you.

[phillip1]

In the DR it is 100% LDS PADI instructors taking unsuspecting clients way past the cavern zone on penetrations of over 300-400mtrs.
these are all OW instructors and should know better.
There is a big difference between me as an idiot going into a cave and getting killed and a group of unsuspecting dive shop clients sigining up for what they think is a safe dive.
I once saw a group of 5 OW divers in El Chicho coming out of the jump after the airdome, (which is already 350mtrs into the cave) the jump is a major resrtiction, this is with no line etc..
I talked to the instcuctor and really gave him **** and he somehow thinks that the safty guidlines do not apply to him as he has cave "experience" whatever that is.
They went in a further 100mtrs or so past the airdome.

I also saw a group of 4 OW divers coming back from way past the mainline in Cueva Taina, which starts way past the cavern zone and is super silty and has many halloclines, again with no line all OW.
Again this was iresponsible LDS instuctors taking OW clients on a cave "tour".

[FW]

Report them to PADI. They take that type of standards violations very seriously.

In the DR it is 100% LDS PADI instructors taking unsuspecting clients way past the cavern zone on penetrations of over 300-400mtrs.
these are all OW instructors and should know better.
There is a big difference between me as an idiot going into a cave and getting killed and a group of unsuspecting dive shop clients sigining up for what they think is a safe dive.
I once saw a group of 5 OW divers in El Chicho coming out of the jump after the airdome, (which is already 350mtrs into the cave) the jump is a major resrtiction, this is with no line etc..
I talked to the instcuctor and really gave him **** and he somehow thinks that the safty guidlines do not apply to him as he has cave "experience" whatever that is.
They went in a further 100mtrs or so past the airdome.

I also saw a group of 4 OW divers coming back from way past the mainline in Cueva Taina, which starts way past the cavern zone and is super silty and has many halloclines, again with no line all OW.
Again this was iresponsible LDS instuctors taking OW clients on a cave "tour".

[Me]

How did he know they were OW and not Cavern? For many agencies, the gear set is the same for both, minus the snorkel.

If at Ginnie, the wristband is visible if diving wet in most cases.

[Rich]

No, I was being facetious.

No you weren't, you lying sack of poo poo.... And I might add that I totally disagree with what the instructor did also, it makes the whole community look like arrogant jack asses!

Safe diving,

Rich

[Kelly Jessop]

My students have to watch "A Deceptively Easy Way to Die" as part of their OW class..

That's great Shirley.

I always felt if they really wanted to get this video to hit home,they should have the cave divers stripping gear off of the victims,and putting in the trunk of their car and driving away. In a sad way,people will be so irate over someone taking their property,they won't take the chance of entering the cave.

[BobK]

My random thoughts

If they are adults, they should ultimately have the freedom to kack themselves. I don't want the "police" telling me I can't dive a certain site because I don't have a sidemount card or a scooter card, etc.

If I bar them in some way (intimidation, threats, etc), they'll just come back when I'm not there.

If I talk to them, explaining (hopefully without preaching), the dangers (the "real" ones not just "you don't have training, you'll die" ones), then hopefully, they'll make a good decision. If that's not sinking in, I'll move on to how nasty cave divers can be to OW divers that screw up and get cave sites closed. The things we'd do to your dead body...

I practiced on my teenagers I figured out that once they think I'm preaching to them, or getting all authoritative, they simply stop listening.

It's even worked a couple of times, and I have never been happier than when one person I'd talked to in that situation came up to me later down the road and proudly showed me his new cavern card.

I was reading this, but then it seemed to get all authoritative and preachy, so I kind of stopped paying attention ...

I figure, if someone wants to die, this is the USA, and that may be their "pursuit of happiness"

[Neptuno]

Report them to PADI. They take that type of standards violations very seriously.

we are thinking seriously on that...
they said they "stopped" that in bayahibe but talking to some guys they got special permition to dive, and where taken in for a regular OW guides...so... still same thing

[phillip1]

Report them to PADI. They take that type of standards violations very seriously.

I did and PADI said if they were not teaching a PADI sanctioned course they could do nothing, I then asked PADI to send them an email reminding them of the limitations of cavern diving and the safety guidelines and they did nothing!
I emailed and even spoke to the top brass at PADI as they were all here doing a IDC thing and they were like we will send an email etc.. it's in the works.

they do not care and did absolutely nothing.

This was over a year and a half ago and PADI really does not