People do ignorant, stupid, mean and utterly irrational things despite their training. It is part of the human condition. We have reason and a mind, both to use and loose.Originally Posted by JahJahwarrior
and BTW, when I bump into my old cave instructor in the cave, I pull up my knees a little more, trim out a bit further and triple check nothing is dangling. Irrational, but still.......I don't want to disappoint him.
Meng Tze
-Homo Bonae Voluntatis
My cavern and intro instructor was pretty clear about what happens after instruction.
"If I see you doing stupid %$^&, or hear of you doing stupid #*^$, I will pull your card!
Maybe more instructors should think this way? If the student shows a complete disregard for etiquette, he's not ready, right? If they swap gear for sidemount and can't get their trim straightened out they silt up the cave. ETC.
That being said, An instructor cannot babysit a former student. That student can make huge mistakes after class and they may never hear about it. I'm guilty of that, I had a guy bust thirds by 500 psi and I didn't call his instructor. I've even met her and maybe I should still call her.
What about an agency complaint department to handle diver violations? If a certain instructor has a high percentage of students violating the protocols and rules of the cave, they could get pulled on the carpet to answer some questions. Make it financially acceptable to turn out safe divers as well. If an instructor has few or no violations with a certain number of certs, that instructor gets an incentive for teaching a great class or only passing qualified candidates with a proper mental attitude.
If a diver gets too many violations, his/her card is canceled and gets put on a public list. They can redeem themselves by attending a refresher. I know there are a few instructors who offer refresher courses for those willing to take it. If I'm not mistaken, one even donates the proceeds to a safety fund.
Flame on.....
Last edited by Meister481; 03-09-2010 at 04:46 PM. Reason: Flame on!
Sounds familiar. It wasn't by any chance a short, fat guy from Georgia, was it?
Whoever said money can't buy love never bought a puppy.
Cool, put me in charge of the rules...My cavern and intro instructor was pretty clear about what happens after instruction.
"If I see you doing stupid %$^&, or hear of you doing stupid #*^$, I will pull your card!
Maybe more instructors should think this way? If the student shows a complete disregard for etiquette, he's not ready, right? If they swap gear for sidemount and can't get their trim straightened out they silt up the cave. ETC.
That being said, An instructor cannot babysit a former student. That student can make huge mistakes after class and they may never hear about it. I'm guilty of that, I had a guy bust thirds by 500 psi and I didn't call his instructor. I've even met her and maybe I should still call her.
What about an agency complaint department to handle diver violations? If a certain instructor has a high percentage of students violating the protocols and rules of the cave, they could get pulled on the carpet to answer some questions. Make it financially acceptable to turn out safe divers as well. If an instructor has few or no violations with a certain number of certs, that instructor gets an incentive for teaching a great class or only passing qualified candidates with a proper mental attitude.
If a diver gets too many violations, his/her card is canceled and gets put on a public list. They can redeem themselves by attending a refresher. I know there are a few instructors who offer refresher courses for those willing to take it. If I'm not mistaken, one even donates the proceeds to a safety fund.
#1 offense is solo diving.
#2 offense is diving sidemount.
#3 offense is diving RB.
#4 offense is stuffing the long hose.
#5 offense is END's > 100 or 130ft.
Who still likes this idea? Seriously, I'm an adult, I can make my own decisions.
# 0 offence is being James.
Andrew Ainslie
Almost extinct cave diver
Where do I need to send my cards?
If our society would look at it this way as well we wouldn't need to consider anything. But the whole "protect us from ourselves" attitude negates that.
#0.5 is being Andrew
Hey, you get the point here...we all do things our instructors might not approve of AFTER class. I bet (know) Rich does things I choose not to do, and I know I've done things he doesn't approve of either. We've had conversations about it, and can agree to disagree on a few issues. Just because he certified me as having passed the standards outlined in the NACD course outline doesn't mean that we agree on EVERYTHING.
Possibly, but each of us have our OWN definition of "safe", and what you see as safer might be more dangerous to me. I don't want to pay for a recertification class each time the current BOD disagrees with me. Frankly I'd just keep diving after they pulled my card, as would 99% of the people here.Where do I need to send my cards?
If our society would look at it this way as well we wouldn't need to consider anything. But the whole "protect us from ourselves" attitude negates that.
Seriously
Judging by your rules you should look at the cave "gods" you subscribe to and look at which one's they broke (i.e. 1, 5 and what the heck is a long hose)
I think you missed the point of my post. We all disagree on certain things was what I was attempting to get across.Seriously
Judging by your rules you should look at the cave "gods" you subscribe to and look at which one's they broke (i.e. 1, 5 and what the heck is a long hose)
JJ gets elected one year, all SM / CCR divers lose their cards.
Andrew gets elected all BM and SCR divers lose their cards.
It's a silly plan IMO.
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