Does Devil's make people rude??

[alias]

Wondering what states you can find cavers now... What is the correct reaction if you suddenly notice someone in a crack above you - lightless, stary-eyed and otherwise motionless but headbutting the wall repeatedly...

[sskasser]

Ya see? This is where my aforementioned A##less neoprene chaps are a Godsend. After my last dive I had several one doller bills stuffed in my belt so I must have had a ninja Shirley encounter.

I'm an innocent ninja this time! I use only nickels, not dollar bills!

Wondering what states you can find cavers now... What is the correct reaction if you suddenly notice someone in a crack above you - lightless, stary-eyed and otherwise motionless but headbutting the wall repeatedly...

In that case, give Marci some privacy!

it helps me to nudge my head against a wall. that's why my hood might have some smutz, not because i rammed into something. i dunno why. next psychological poll, anyone? 'what helps you pee'?

[FW]

I think the moral here is, If the lead diver slows down, or grabs something, stop too, or swim around them!

[ARY]

About 6 or so yrs ago I was making my way down the steps of Troy and there were two individuals there doing some funny stuff. They were blocking my way down and not to be rude I asked what are they doing. They said something like S-drill. I have to tell you that at that time I've just settled in US after a long way from USSR. So I said them "Let me just pass you guys and you can keep drilling it?"

The point is - get away from steps when you are busy w/your partner(s)

[deanme]

I've seen 2 scootering teams almost crash into each other at LR, I could see that becoming a big deal quick if you are trying to exit quickly to keep the deco down. But on a busy day those turns can get you.

I was going into the cave at Ginnie one time about a year ago, and was about 100 feet shy of the entrance to Roller Coaster. The cave is very wide here, but not very tall except on the extreme right and extreme left, and even then not much more then about 4 feet.

Anyway, I was going INTO the cave and saw two dudes scootering my direction exiting the cave. I hesitated and thought about how I could get out of their way and yield, but there was simply no room, so I kept swimming and hugged the right hand side of the wall. The two scooter dudes hesitated a moment to assess the situation, and then (I’m guessing) asserted their right to exit the cave with me “yielding” and pointed their scooters inches from me and flew by on my left, just missing me.

I guess they were angry I didn’t stop swimming? And I guess it was their right to put my life in jeopardy for my transgression? I think not.

As luck would have it, they were parked right next to me, and I wanted very much to take their scooters and crash them on the pavement. They came inches from hitting me on the head with their scooter, which could have killed me given the logistics.

Although maybe I should have stopped swimming, there is no excuse for their behavior. I know a lot of you will say, you got what you deserve, even though there really was not place for me to go, I should have stopped swimming. I have thought about this incident a lot, and have decided the next time it happens, I’m going to call the police and have the people arrested for some sort of endangerment.

Now when I see a scooter approaching me, my heart rate goes up, I stress, and I put my hand out to make sure they hit my hand instead of my head. I feel odd doing this, even bad. I’m assuming the other person will be rude, and the other person with the scooter probably thinks, what an ass, assuming I will hit him. But I’d rather be a live ass then a dead polite diver.

And although it pains me (because I really don’t like Andrew) I totally agree with him about his comment about yielding to the people on the way IN the cave, except in an emergency situation which can be easily communicated. I always yield to people swimming into the cave. When exiting, I have plenty of gas and can take my time. When diving thirds and being near the exit, we should all have plenty of gas to exit and take our time. We are NOT on a time schedule. The people entering the cave are on a time schedule and have to turn the dive when they hit thirds, so they are diving with a hard limit.

dean

[MORGAN]

it helps me to nudge my head against a wall. that's why my hood might have some smutz, not because i rammed into something. i dunno why. next psychological poll, anyone? 'what helps you pee'?

I can pee with no discernable effort or preparation anytime during a dive - while swimming, running a line, putting in or picking up a jump, or whatever. I just let 'er rip!

Mike

[sskasser]

<snip>next time it happens, I’m going to call the police and have the people arrested for some sort of endangerment.<snip>
dean

Please don't. Instead, just have a calm conversation with them.

We cave divers get enough grief from "the outside world" without drawing additional negative attention to ourselves. It's these kinds of incidents that cause scooters to get banned ("Well, the police had to be called, scooters must cause problems!") and cave diving to get banned ("Well, the police had to be called to handle those cave divers!").

[Sludge]

I can pee with no discernable effort or preparation anytime during a dive - while swimming, running a line, putting in or picking up a jump, or whatever. I just let 'er rip!

Mike

Wow, just like a horse!

[Tegg]

Please don't. Instead, just have a calm conversation with them.

We cave divers get enough grief from "the outside world" without drawing additional negative attention to ourselves. It's these kinds of incidents that cause scooters to get banned ("Well, the police had to be called, scooters must cause problems!") and cave diving to get banned ("Well, the police had to be called to handle those cave divers!").

No worries Shirley... I don't even think they would respond to that call...

It would be like a cop responding to a "bully" on a playground... not really their top priority on the call list...

Dean, you could just simply address them and see if the issue was really what you thought, or if they meant no harm in what took place... (such as maybe they did not know they could "fit" on the other side, or they felt more comfortable being closer to the line....

Sometimes a simple and mature conversation resolves a lot of misunderstood situations...

[deanme]

Please don't. Instead, just have a calm conversation with them.

We cave divers get enough grief from "the outside world" without drawing additional negative attention to ourselves. It's these kinds of incidents that cause scooters to get banned ("Well, the police had to be called, scooters must cause problems!") and cave diving to get banned ("Well, the police had to be called to handle those cave divers!").

Good point. No one wants scooters to banned, nor cave diving.

But I would not feel comfortable approaching someone like them. I’d be afraid of their response to calm conversation, with them putting me in my place, and hit me. Keep in mind, you are a female, and females can get away with a lot when approaching a male. I don’t have that luxury.

It is kind of like small dogs and big dogs. Small dogs are totally unafraid to approach a large dog, because they have lived a life where someone protects them. Large dogs, who have been in fights are always more cautions. I have been attacked many, many times when approaching someone to calmly discuss a disagreement. It is a male form of intimidation utilized by bullies.

dean