Cave diving dangerous?

[sskasser]

I am very much for more boater education, but let's not get the governmennt involved and use words like "mandatory". They can't enforce the laws they have already (such as those related to safe distances from dive flags).

We've had a team member hooked by fishermen fishing "on" our flag, and had our boat captain "educate" many other boaters and jet skis while we were in the water. Sadly, though, these are probably some of the same oofs that have a valid driver license, yet routinely run cyclists off the road, ignore signal lights, and drive on the shoulder at 70mph with a beer in their lap and three kids standing on the seat beside them. A mandatory boating license isn't going to change their behavior. Enforcing the existing laws concerning dive flags will, especially when it hits their wallet.

[deanme]

Enforcing the existing laws concerning dive flags will, especially when it hits their wallet.

When you are on 95, do you speed when you see a police officer? Boaters obey the laws when they see a local police boat in the ocean.

Most of the boat captains are a bit shy to confront these belligerent boaters in the water, and I don’t blame them. I know of only one boat captain in South Florida that will actively and aggressively protect his divers in the water, and he is an angry “I hate everyone” type person.

Not sure what the answer is to rude behavior.

Another story of conflict at sea.

I used to dive a lot off Jacksonville Florida on a 6 pack boat called The Sea Beast with Bill. We used to go out to the Casa Blanca which sits in 110 feet 33 miles off shore at Mayport. Often the fishing boats 20 miles out would follow us, because we were obviously a dive boat and the dive boat captains know where all the wrecks are located, and the fish are often on the wrecks.

One trip to the Casa Blanca we picked up a hitch hiker fishing boat at about mile 23 that followed us for about 9 miles waiting for us to drop anchor on a wreck. Bill, having dealt with this before, slowed down and pretended to drop anchor on a decoy wreck. The fishing boat sped up, and dropped anchor right next to us before we could say “huh”? Bill then gunned his boat and went another mile to the real dive site, and dropped anchor on the Casa Blanca. The fishing boat pulled up next to us and circled us for about 10 minutes, threatening us with all sorts of hostel comments. It wasn’t until we threatened to call the coast guard that they took off.

dean

[deanme]

Agreed, most boaters don't know the rules. I know it would piss alot of people off.

I don't think so. I can't see you pissing anyone off. You are a polite and respectful person, that may make a mistake on occasion.

What makes me angry is not what is an obvious mistake or an obvious lack of understanding of the rules; it is rude behavior and obvious life endangerment actions.

When someone drops an anchor that barely misses me, or when someone speeds by a dive flag, or when someone threatens our boat 33 miles out, it isn't due to a lack of understanding of the rules. It is due to rude and selfish behavior.

Maybe we should fund unmarked coast guard and police officers off shore, similar to unmarked highway patrol cars on 95?

dean

[Squirrel Girl]

You just gotta wonder about people. The other day while we've been snowed in here around DC for days, I rode my mountain bike to the grocery store after about 4 days of not leaving the driveway. I moved closer to the center of the road to avoid some ice. A driver came up behind me, beeped at me for moving into the lane, then passed me with inches to spare, beeping the whole time.

Get OVER it, dood. Where the heck are you going in such a hurry in the Snowpocalypse?

I was in a kayak for the second time in my life along the beach at Santa Barbara and some sailboats nearly ran me over. The name of the first boat was "Mischief." The second one came w/in 6' feet and I flipped in my startled state. I could *not* figure out how to climb back on w/o the boat flipping over and whacking me in the head. So I towed the boat 1000' to shore and climbed back in. @$$hole!

I don't think laws are a bad thing. When a driver kills a cyclist, I like it when they get locked up and thrown in jail. But I am going to curb my desire to start a discussion of what is a reasonable law and what's not 'cuz I don't believe politics are a good thing to discuss on fora. Zip and lock (my lips--or fingers in this case).

[rpurdy]

I've been down to the keys for lobster mini-season -- talk about CRAZY. Last year during the two days we were down there, one diver was killed and two others were hit by boats.

We had a few boats go right over top of our dive flag..

...I'll stick with cave diving

[alias]

It sure isn’t a Florida problem only. I feel very vulnerable dragging a dive flag around. Most boaters are ignorant – can you expect them to yield to my tiny flag when they don’t even seem to get what a permanent mooring is? I have seen boats cruise between moorings that are set on two ends of a small protected wreck – when it’s well known that it is forbidden to cruise over AND stupid because it’s shallow. This includes commercial boats that work in local area – what is the excuse?

I try to work on grass roots level. We have one good shore site where lifeguards actually protect divers and yell at every small boater, kayaker etc who go too close to a dive flags. We often hear people grumbling about it on the beach because they do not understand what is going on. (The beach has a boat launch) Every time anyone says anything negative, I try to take the time to turn to the person, and explain why we need the protection. If it is a curious 7 year old just ogling the flag, I tell why the flag is there anyway because what better advocate than that when s/he is hopping in the boat with daddy. S/he’ll make sure daddy hears about it next time they are getting too close to that dive flag out on the lake/sea.

[deanme]

I've been down to the keys for lobster mini-season -- talk about CRAZY. Last year during the two days we were down there, one diver was killed and two others were hit by boats.

We had a few boats go right over top of our dive flag..

...I'll stick with cave diving

Now that I dive with a 4th light (3 backups) and a spare mask, the only two things I really stress about in a cave is someone taking my 100% oxygen bottle at Ginnie, and the monsters that are lurking just beyond sight when I enter a cave with zero viz, such as Jail House.

I still love to ocean dive. But I find staying below 130 feet, where boats and most other divers can't reach me, is where I feel the safest. I'd rather face a couple of bull sharks on the Northern Light at 190 feet in Key Largo then a hoard of divers coming up an anchor line with ripping current, forcing me to stay on the line.

dean

[Steve Thacker]

I could go on for days about rude boaters and their behavior with my former charter operation. I ran charters for 12 years here on the gulf coast near Venice, and it always amazed me how ignorant some boaters are. I kept a siren aboard my boat and would blast it at boats coming toward our dive flags. That worked about 50% of the time. I actually witnessed one of the "muscle boat" Poker Runs, with over a hundred boats racing, run right over our flags at 60-70 miles per hour! I called the Coast Guard regarding the race but they knew nothing about it. Here in Venice, where at least a thousand near off-shore dives are performed every season, it is only a matter of time before a diver gets killed by a passing boater. I got tired of the BS and sold the boat charter business this past August.

I also have NO USE for the cdnn website. A young man that was in our divemaster class was lost due to a free diving accident this past fall. My company name was headlined - as that site does with all accidents - despite the fact that this did not happen aboard our vessel or during any event with my store. That site has a hidden agenda if ever I saw one.

Cave diving has its advantages - most of the time we don't have to worry about getting our heads cut off during an ascent.

[LCF]

One of my all-time favorite instructors, Joe Talavera, told me that if he had to choose one kind of diving to do for the rest of his life, it'd be cave diving. I asked, "Because it's so beautiful?" And he said, "No, because it's so SIMPLE. You have a roof and a floor and walls, no current or surge, and no dependence on changing surface conditions or a losable boat . . . " There's a lot to be said for that!

[pwl4476]

Maybe 10 years ago I was diving with my brother on a dive boat out of New Port Richie. We'd done a wreck dive fairly far out and stopped to dive a shallow ledge on the way back in. While I was picking up some shells near the ledge and near the dive boat in the 50' range when I noticed movement out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look and it was a rather large baited fishhook passing by. Then I noticed more hooks passing by a bit farther away and realized that it was a boat trolling the ledge easily within 100 ft of the dive boat.

Clearly I was relaxed by the N2, because the thought that crossed my mind when I saw the hook was "Maybe I should give a pull on that hook and make them think that they've caught a fish", then I came to my senses. I didn't think much about it until I was back on the dive boat and realized what could have happened.

Paul