Cave Diving Survey

[Expedition Divers]

Hello Cave Divers!

I am trying to collect the opinions of cave divers and instructors about whether or not they believe cave diving students should be allowed to utilize sidemount configuration during training. The information collected will be presented by myself to the NACD board of directors and to the training committee.

FYI, the NACD is one of the few remaining organizations that do not allow cave students to learn in sidemount. I believe this is a topic that the NACD should address and I think your opinions are valuable. I would love to reach every member of the NACD; however our database is private and should remain that way. Please distribute this form freely to any cave diver you know, especially if they are NACD members. The form can be found at the following link.

http://superiordivetraining.com/Survey_pub_0001.pdf

Please feel free to contact me if you would like to discuss this topic or have any questions. I will not be following or responding to this thread.

386-965-5832 or richard@superiordivetraining.com

Added:

Looks like some people are having difficulty with the pdf survey. Here is one created by survey monkey. Thanks for the tip Andrew!

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/89DVKMB

[Kelly Jessop]

Hello Cave Divers!

I am trying to collect the opinions of cave divers and instructors about whether or not they believe cave diving students should be allowed to utilize sidemount configuration during training. The information collected will be presented by myself to the NACD board of directors and to the training committee.

FYI, the NACD is one of the few remaining organizations that do not allow cave students to learn in sidemount. I believe this is a topic that the NACD should address and I think your opinions are valuable. I would love to reach every member of the NACD; however our database is private and should remain that way. Please distribute this form freely to any cave diver you know, especially if they are NACD members. The form can be found at the following link.

http://superiordivetraining.com/Survey_pub_0001.pdf

Please feel free to contact me if you would like to discuss this topic or have any questions. I will not be following or responding to this thread.

386-965-5832 or richard@superiordivetraining.com

Interesting discussion that will commence I am sure. My only comment to add is that I think the teacher of a particular configuration ie backmount,sidemount,rebreather etc to be accomplished in this area,and in the same configuration as their student. I saw a class not too long ago where the student was in sidemount,and I know the instructor is not a sidemount diver,and was using a backmount configuration. Also,certification at the entry level in sidemount, is diving a sidemount configuration,not sidemount style of diving (big difference between the two).

[icestac]

a a a a

Umm... am I missing something?

[sea2summit]

Umm... am I missing something?

Decided he didn't like the can of worms, saw it on TDS and it was going to be a mess.

He didn't take it down there yet.
http://thedecostop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42364

[scububa]

Yeah, what was he thinking? Coming here for opinions

[DA Aquamaster]

Decided he didn't like the can of worms, saw it on TDS and it was going to be a mess.

He didn't take it down there yet.
http://thedecostop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42364

Really? Looks like he just pulled it to edit the form and it is back up now.

The subject is not that controversial, but then again the folks on the drama stop can get worked up about pretty much anything. Making wild a$$ assumptions about other people's acttions and motives, then posting that information as fact is a good way to create some drama. Let's try to avoid that here.

[skip]

I filled out the form. I see nothing wrong with teaching in sidemount, but I'd like to see mixed team teaching too, not strictly sidemount teams. Sidemounters with long hose doing oog drills just like backmount. Of course drills in which tanks are exchanged (sidemount oog drills) would be good too. Does instructor need to be sidemount? I'm not so sure that's a requirement. I'd hope instructor would have some experience, but if the teaching involves mixed teams, then maybe instructor could be backmount.

-skip

[Sludge]

I'd hope instructor would have some experience,

Yes, one would hope. I would want someone to have experience doing something he's teaching me to do.

I once had an instructor ask to borrow my scooter to teach an open-water scooter class. He didn't own one and had never scootered.

I also watched an instructor who owned a point-and-shoot camera teach an underwater photography class.

[DA Aquamaster]

I filled out the form. I see nothing wrong with teaching in sidemount, but I'd like to see mixed team teaching too, not strictly sidemount teams. Sidemounters with long hose doing oog drills just like backmount.

I think this is essential, and to some extent it will require the NACD to establish some standards for sidemount configuration - in essence, a 7' hose on one of the regs.

Of course drills in which tanks are exchanged (sidemount oog drills) would be good too.

I'm not sure that is essential as it would be a good idea to maintain a distinction between cave diving in a sidemount configuration and being properly trained to dive in an environment where sidemount is essential.

Does instructor need to be sidemount? I'm not so sure that's a requirement. I'd hope instructor would have some experience, but if the teaching involves mixed teams, then maybe instructor could be backmount.

Agreed.

[alias]

Personally, this is easy one for me to answer because I have a horse deep in this race.

I injured myself fairly seriously after I had just taken Intro to Cave course. For a while it became impossible for me to carry doubles. Even now it’s not the most sensible thing for me to do, and I am not able to do it for prolonged periods (eg duration of a cave trip).

I knew I wanted further cave training, so while I was recovering I changed over to sidemount configuration. I have been diving SM both in OW and overhead since I have been back in the water. For me it makes all the sense in the world that I should be allowed to continue training in sidemount rather than finish in doubles. I plan to dive sidemount in caves in future – why would I not finish the training in the rig I am actively using?

I am not really ‘needing’ the sidemount course that teaches about getting into nasty holes (yet), I just want to learn to dive caves in sidemount configuration. In my case, I am not planning on using SM to do anything that is beyond my training or to get into any sites that I could damage with my inferior skills. I assume these are some of the worries NACD has about divers’ motivations?? I just want to get to dive.

IMHO any sidemount specific skills that are post-Full Cave level can (should) be simply left out from training up till Full Cave. Personally, I would consider things like removal of tanks to negotiate restrictions etc to belong into post-Full Sidemount courses. Divers who are taught in other configurations are not trained in any ‘advanced’ skills so SM divers should not be either until further courses.

I would never consider taking training from an instructor who does not dive the system themselves. If I wanted training in mixed team, I would expect the instructor to be proficient diving both systems s/he will be teaching on, and actively diving and/or teaching both. I can’t believe it when I run into instructors who just took a course in something as demanding as RB:s two weeks ago and now they offer a course in it.