Tightest Sidemount Cave System ?

[rchrds]

Actually, that's a really good question, only because there isn't a really solid answer- You have to be aware of what makes you uncomfortable, and keep a close eye on the conditions- passage composition (hard vs soft floor and ceiling, potential for silting) water flow, shape, and gear that you have on, among others. If I am working a very small passage, always in the back of my mind is "where am I going to turn around?" If you can't see a place ahead (for whatever reason, silt or turns) it just makes it that much more difficult. If I am getting through without wedging, then I feel fairly comfortable with continuing with all the gear I have on, and I will typically continue without changes, even if I can't see a place to turn around. Though my personal limit in this sort seems to be about 50-75 feet without a place to turn around. Once I find a good turn place, I will continue another 50-75 feet.
If I am wedging (hitting either both floor and ceiling, or both walls) then I will consider removing gear. First will be one tank- which makes an amazing difference, particularly with smaller tanks (40s 30s, etc.) This usually gives me the space side to side to pass through easily, and you can turn around in much smaller places with only one tank on. If I am wedging top to bottom- I will almost never continue past a place where I have to exhale to pass it, unless it is only a few inches or something. Extended passage like that I don't feel comfortable in, and is generally not a good idea, IMHO.
Often, I will work a passage like this over time- if the conditions allow, I will back out and leave things like fins (you can't back out of tiny stuff with fins easily) at the entrance to the restriction, until i know for sure that it continues and opens up again. Sometimes, I leave a tank, just to check things in the same fashion (but rarely beyond relaxed breath hold distance.) Sometimes you just have to leave and come back later with smaller gear. Another thing that helps is to bring a buddy (I don't generally have a buddy in very small stuff) and work out a "stuck" signal. (We use crossing the fins back and forth at the ankle.) I cannot tell you how many times Mike Tennant has pulled me backwards out of a place that I was completely stuck, and I have done the same for him. It's a good skill to know.
The cave isn't going anywhere, and you have the rest of your life to figure out how you are going to attack it.

I won't lie, there are places where I have not gone, (not many) that i felt were just barely too small for too long that made me uncomfortable. Over the years that I have been cave diving, those little passages left alone have paled in comparison to the rest of the virgin cave I have found, so they don't weigh heavily on my mind. If I never make it back to them, it won't hurt my feelings to leave them to the "next generation." (Funny to hear myself say that when I was constantly referred to as the next generation by Woody and Tom.)

[atedeschi]

Thanks, kind of what I was thinking, and I def agree I always keep looking for where I am going to turn around at. Never really thought about taking the fins off and I was always wondering about the top/bottom restrictions. The one in jug (to the right on the way in) I could not get my shoulders past, probably in a wetsuit and razor type harness but not with my nomad deflated and drysuit on. I also always wondered about these no mount caves (I havnt realy had the desire to try) but if its to tight to wear tanks it has to open up somehwere to be able to turn around with the tank. Thanks again for the post.

[AB8CD]

And of course 'tight' is completely relative to a degree.

What is simply a little small to one person may be impassable to someone else. A concept I am very familiar with.

I wanted to make that point as well... It is one thing watching a 115 lb thing slide through a restriction and another thing altogether for a 250 lb guy behind her!

[EEL]

I dont know if this should be another thread, but I would like to ask when pushing in an unknow passage either virgin or new to you what if it does not open up. How do you plan for that? I know some common sense plays a part but what about things you didn't realy think of or have learned. I been diving sm for a few years now and feel pretty squared away and been in some tight areas and sm only caves but this is always one of those things in the back in my mind. Besides just saying backup was wondering if anyone could elborate. PMs are welcomed as well as not to side track this thread to much.

Anthony,

Here is an entry from my log for a dive in small cave. I tried to convey my thoughts of backing out in a smallish tunnel.

Williford Spring Dive 6/16/2010
I did a dive today to extend the North (#2) source tunnel at Williford Spring. I dived with sidemounted AL40s; max depth was 25 FFW and the dive time was 39 minutes. The entrance to this spring is challenging as it has crazy high flow for a four foot long tunnel leading to the cavern. Once in it is only 35 feet to the jump on the right for the North Source tunnel. Here I removed my fins, and unclipped the 40s. With the fins left on the main line and the 40s out in front of me I eased in against the gentle flow of the passage ahead. The current line ended about 10 feet in and I tied off my reel and pressed on in a tunnel that was about 25-30 inches in diameter. I went very very slowly. The old line ended on top of a small hill. From here the passage dropped back down and meandered a little left and right. It was not very tight, but a little awkward as the rocks were very snagy. At each turn I was hoping the passage would either pinch down or open up, but if just continued on at about the same size. About 35-45 feet in I could see around the bend that the tunnel went up over another small rise about six feet ahead. I stopped here to evaluate what to do. As I looked ahead the ceiling percolation descended around me, and the vis went for 50+ to less than 3 feet. I guess this, because when I looked back I could no longer see my feet. Faced with the unknown difficulty of backing out of this rocky tube in greatly reduced visibility I had reached my comfort level for this dive. I locked down the reel, looped it around a rock and started moving backwards. I could not see much but just felt with my feet and kept the guide line visible just out of my right eye. I thought I was going slow, but actually must have been moving faster than on the way in since in a very short time I was back at my tie off. I noticed my reel must have pulled off here as the line was loose in the flow. I stopped at the tie off for a couple deep breaths and continued to back the last bit back to the main tunnel. Well that was easy; no where near as bad as I thought it would be when the percolation descended around me. I still had lots of gas and briefly entertained the thought of going back and fixing my loose line. Then I realized that coming back with full tanks was more prudent. The cave will always be there. I used the rest of my gas to look at the other 2 source leads in this cave; both look promising, but each has its own unique and troubling challenges. As always the scariest part of this dive is the exit out of the cavern with the high flow. No matter what you do you will go from 15 feet to 5 feet instantaneously? Best bet is to close your eyes, duck your head, blow and go. Now what is over that rise in the north source tunnel? I guess I will have to go back and find out…..

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Williford may have the highest flowing entrance that I have ever had to pull against. You the man Mark.

[Greenwood_60]

...if the conditions allow, I will back out and leave things like fins (you can't back out of tiny stuff with fins easily) at the entrance to the restriction...

This got me thinking, what do you guys do to ensure your fins are there when you come back? There is irony in the successful navigation of a tight passage that required the removal of your fins, to find out you have walk or crawl your way out of what should be the easy part of the cave.

Then I read this:

...With the fins left on the main line

Do you bring an extra double-ender or something, just for leaving your fins on the main line?

I really can't ever imagine wanting to squeeze through anything much longer than 2x the length of my body, and only that if someone has already confirmed there is something on the other side.

[SuPrBuGmAn]

An extra double ender is good for a crap load of situations. Keep an extra one in your pocket/pouch/whatever.

[OFG-1]

An extra double ender is good for a crap load of situations..

Yeah, that what all the lesbians say.

(Sludge, although not profane as such, does this still qualify as unsophisticated?)

[BgDadddy]

IDK... I got a kick out of it. :-p

[Xenia]

Mark,

Even though I have no clue about the system or these tight things, this log post was excellent and thank you for sharing this. It reminds me why I feel OK with Bobby pushing really tight stuff although I cannot understand it. It is the toughest thing to wait out of a little rabbit hole that he has gotten in and I know I cannot and don't want to follow. But we have our protocol, a buddy is good behind with gas or... just holding the main line.

I understand this passion of wanting to find a big room on the other side... although I don't share it. But it is good to remember there is always another day and it is always good to attack this with plenty of gas reserves.

I would guess that it is best to explore these systems no mount because you can back up easily. Why would you ever go superman on a hole that you are not sure you will be able to backup? Shouldn't all this exploration be done no mount? I am not doing any of this, just a philosophical question. Sorry for the ignorant question, just wondering from all these posts I have read here.