Opposition to DIR philosophy?

[Me]

Just to clarify for Chris....Hogarthian was not invented by DIR or GUE. Hogarthian, the simple method of wrapping the long hose predated both. Thank you to Mr. Main.

Also, having taken my cave training in the mid 90s I remember the "one" Forrest mentions.

[stairman]

I like the freedom of gear selection as a non Gue diver. I have a ggod friend who went from NSSfull cave to Gue and even works at Extreme Exposures. I plan on doing some dives in Ginnie with him around New Years and will listen to more of their philosopies then without making gear changes. I know Im looked down upon at sites with GUE groups possibly but who cares what they think anyway.

[fno]

Hogarthian is way more than a method of wrapping ones long hose. However, it is "not" a way of life, lifestyle, nor is it an "invention" Those that are familiar with the man and his methods might call it a more expedient route to wings and beer!

[amphipod06]

I may remember incorrectly, but the gear configuration of DIR evolved from the Hogarthian (yes, thanks again Mr Main) concept of simplicity and minimalism. The dogmatic view came as an offshoot (DIR) and was embraced by a particular group (the radio station) headed by GIII at the time.

Like in all religions (pardon the comparison, no intention of being offensive to anyone) there are zealots and converts that go a bit over the top and take teachings and recommendations as commandments never to be broken. I think (again my opinion, YMMV), that there is where everything went awry.

One prophet (here is the similarity again), GIII, preaching what he saw deemed correct as dogma, everyone else was wrong and would suffer consequences if not on the right path (ostracism, ridicule, and ultimately death...).

The rigidity of the paradigm and the resistance to other views and possible evolution is what turned off many, as Americans we all take pride in being individualistic and resourceful and this type of thinking may be anathema to our core values.

I am not defending the rantings or the zealots, but I try to think that there are good points that can be salvaged and utilized by ther rest of us mere mortals. Don't dismiss the good points with the noxious diatribes, instead look for the things that would work for you and build upon them.

My cave diving instructor took a very good approach to gear. The first day we all showed up with various examples of current (at the time) configurations. He asked for the why of everything we had done and proceeded to make recommendations, if he thought you needed changes; then EXPLAINED the reason and its advantages as well as possible disadvantages. I learned a lot from him. Nowadays, regardless of what I think of anyone's configuration, I ask why?
If the answer makes sense and it may be adavantageous and useful, why not try it if it suits my needs?

Dive safe,

Celia

[FW]

About Hogarthian... Bill Main is a friend of mine, and I wouldn't dream of diminishing his contributions.... but...

It was Sheck Exley that first used 100 cu ft tanks (they were the predecessor to 104s/E130s). Sheck also was the first to use a long hose, and the first to wrap it. In the early days, a "long" hose was 5', so he wrapped it around his neck. When we went to 7' hose, the the current method was adopted.

Sheck was also the one that insisted on breathing the long hose, since all divers were used to going for the one in their buddies mouth in an emergency.

When Greg Flanagan made the first backplates, Bill got one, but so did Sheck. I was already using a back mounted BC, so it took me a little longer to switch to a backplate.

Would anyone like to guess who sold Bill Main his first set of 104s?

[MengTze]

I may remember incorrectly, but the gear configuration of DIR evolved from the Hogarthian (yes, thanks again Mr Main) concept of simplicity and minimalism. The dogmatic view came as an offshoot (DIR) and was embraced by a particular group (the radio station) headed by GIII at the time.

Like in all religions (pardon the comparison, no intention of being offensive to anyone) there are zealots and converts that go a bit over the top and take teachings and recommendations as commandments never to be broken. I think (again my opinion, YMMV), that there is where everything went awry.

One prophet (here is the similarity again), GIII, preaching what he saw deemed correct as dogma, everyone else was wrong and would suffer consequences if not on the right path (ostracism, ridicule, and ultimately death...).

The rigidity of the paradigm and the resistance to other views and possible evolution is what turned off many, as Americans we all take pride in being individualistic and resourceful and this type of thinking may be anathema to our core values.

I am not defending the rantings or the zealots, but I try to think that there are good points that can be salvaged and utilized by ther rest of us mere mortals. Don't dismiss the good points with the noxious diatribes, instead look for the things that would work for you and build upon them.

My cave diving instructor took a very good approach to gear. The first day we all showed up with various examples of current (at the time) configurations. He asked for the why of everything we had done and proceeded to make recommendations, if he thought you needed changes; then EXPLAINED the reason and its advantages as well as possible disadvantages. I learned a lot from him. Nowadays, regardless of what I think of anyone's configuration, I ask why?
If the answer makes sense and it may be adavantageous and useful, why not try it if it suits my needs?

Dive safe,

Celia

Well put Celia.
Every religion has as aim to live well, become better and prepare for the aftermath. Dogma, indoctrination and fanaticism are dangerous outcomes of any believe; religious or otherwise.

[amphipod06]

.

Would anyone like to guess who sold Bill Main his first set of 104s?

Trey?

Dive safe,

Celia

[cavediver256]

Would anyone like to guess who sold Bill Main his first set of 104s?

I would be willing to bet you did Forrest. How long ago was that???

[FW]

Trey?

[FW]

I would be willing to bet you did Forrest. How long ago was that???

Around 1978.