Another "what would you do if..."

[Me]

I was in the enlisted ranks, but the rationale was the same; better one dead Coastie, than two dead Coasties, etc.

[aainslie]

I was in the enlisted ranks, but the rationale was the same; better one dead Coastie, than two dead Coasties, etc.

So easy to say - so difficult to do.

My girlfriend took our dog for a walk recently in Colorado. The idiot found a small bear (~4 ft) and started sniffing it. The bear was going nuts, making very pissed off sounds. Jen ran up and grabbed the dog - not a foot from the bear! I asked Jen afterwards what she was thinking, and she said she wasn't. That's sort of how emergencies are.

[Sludge]

The idiot found a small bear (~4 ft) and started sniffing it.

Andrew, it's not a good idea to talk about your girlfriend in this manner.

[Me]

Especially on a public forum......

[aainslie]

I assumed "sniffed" set the context...

Andrew, it's not a good idea to talk about your girlfriend in this manner.

[DA Aquamaster]

Ohhhh....the dog found the bear not your girlfriend.

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One of the things I like about cave diving is that many of the emergencies, generally speaking, happen slow, or at least the build up to the actual emrgency happens fairly slow. It allows you some time to either prevent them, or to stop and think about your response. That time may only be 30 seconds or so in some cases or it may be several minutes, But in either case it is a lot more time than you have in higher speed activities like aviation where you may have only a split second or at best a handful of seconds to work the problem when speed and altitude start to rapidly got to pot.

[Cindy]

Boy I hate jumping in on the end of a thread but I know one of the divers. No one "went bonkers". The diver who went "deep" just took a look and came out in a short time. Time really expands in a cave when you are waiting. Personally, if I couldn't have stopped the diver when they left the dive plan, I would have waited and then gone after if I felt the need. Of course I would have been inspired to thump someone over the head with my light. Oh well. Not there.
I can't tell you how many times I have been on dives where people checked out a side passage, left deco early, etc. during dives. To me it is not only a safety issue but common curtesy to let people know before you do that kind of stuff. Be a buddy or be a solo diver. Just don't be a self centered jerk.
One problem I see here is a four person dive team that did not match gas, match tank volumes, breathing rates, gear, plan or communicate well. I fell a lot of concern and I see that this is a real issue. Divers just bailing out of a car and "going for a fun dive". None of us were taught to do that in cave class. At what point do we stop doing routine safety skills?

[FW]

B..... Be a buddy or be a solo diver. Just don't be a self centered jerk.....

Yep, that is the bottom line, and I agree fully!

[BabyDuck]

cindy, there certainly could have been better planning & communication, but one thing that *was* clear is that there were 2 teams of 2. my bud & i did the gas stuff & safety stuff, and i thought the plan was clear though obviously it wasn't.

no one went bonkers and everyone exited just fine - thank goodness - but it got us thinking how to prevent that first unsafe step or what to do in a similar situation another time. i think this has been a pretty good thread in general and thank everyone for their input.

[DA Aquamaster]

I think it is true that pre-dive communication needed to be improved. I have discussed it with 2 of the 3 divers and there is universal agreement that there should have been much more communication to ensure all the parties involved understood exactly what the limits were.

There were I think also some things on the dive that I envisioned but did not address at the surface and in that regard I failed to ensure clarity in a couple areas. The original plan as briefed well before arrival at PIII was a swim to the Hendley's jump. This progressed in the parking lot to actually taking the jump and procededing to the MOD. As such, there should have been more communication regarding setting the third jump. Once the primary and initial penetration was done the plan was for me to switch with the number 2 diver in the group to allow that diver more practice putting in jumps. I like doing jumps but I take care to ensure me and my buddy both stay current and share the role on different dives. That diver had two jump reels clipped on and my assumption was that the third jump would be made with one of that diver's extra spools. But I did not bring it up or clarify it and that was clearly my bad.

As it developed during the dive, the number 3 diver had a reel readily available and used the reel to place the third jump which temporarily changed the team order at the Hendley's jump. In retrospect, that probably had a significant impact on how the team proceeded forward at that point and confused the leadership situation, creating at least some psychological lattitude regarding the dive plan by giving the perception it was more freewheeling than anyone intended. At the time I felt it was a bit of a CF, and I should have acted on that, called attention to it, and ensured the team restacked itself in the proper order before proceeding.

The leadership arrangements for the dive were also complicated as: I led in, diver number 2 lead from the jumps onward (and we had both been to Hendley's before), while diver number 3 had much more experience than I do (and had in the past on our 3 person teams been the default team leader). We also planned to default to the two teams of two approach on exit in the cavern as one team was exiting through PII and the other was planning to end the dive with some exploration of the PIII cavern.

I think contributing failures here were our failure to clearly delineate leadership of the team, clear assignment of the placing of the third jump and a failuire to insist on preservation of the team order past the last jump. Even with the planned looking around in the room just before the final descent to the sandslide, I think there would have been a lot less ambiguity as to what was and was not acceptable if team order were maintained and a definitive leader assigned.

In that regard considering there were three "chiefs" at one point or another, it was no surprise the one Indian in the group saw no reason not to assume their own lead in dropping down toward Hendley's.

In looking at the way events unfolded I have had to personally consider why I let things develop in a manner that I would not have normally have found acceptable. I know one thing I noted to myself and my regular dive buddy pre-dive was that I felt like I was outside my normal routine and pre-dive flow. That is a warning sign I normally listen to and should not have ignored.

I think there was also some time pressure to deconflict the dive with the other team entering at basically the same time. I should have taken some steps to better coordinate the teams and ensure that the second team proceeded on a time delay after the first team left the surface rather than rushing our departure to avoid any delay of the second team.

The normal pattern on arrival seems to be to go look at the sink, talk about the dive, gear up, then have a final review of the dive in the sink. In this case, there was an instructor running lines in the trees between PIII and parking lot creating an obstacle, too many divers when considering both teams to get everyone organized and to the sink at the same time, and the people involved were widely spread over the parking lot, all of which hindered effective pre-dive communication. Those were obstacles that needed to be overcome and if that was not possible, then the dive should have been thumbed in the parking lot with a different plan developed or with more smaller teams operating fully independently.