Goodenough Springs Exploration Project - Notice of Complaint

[cavedivenut]

Yadda, yadda, yadda and my D**k is bigger than yours.

[rjack]

I am not sure if there was an effort to scoop or not in this case. Maybe it was a misunderstanding, maybe there was some communication but it was veiled in intent.

But, a "no poaching" ethic exists in other sports like sport rock climbing as well (where bolts are installed to facilitate free climbing efforts that may take a long time and many tries). Such an ethic does not exist in mountaineering where there has often been a race to the top of an unclimbed peak/face/wall.

[LiteHedded]

Yadda, yadda, yadda and my D**k is bigger than yours.

that's what I'm getting out of this whole thing
my response to this thread is: "who gives a ****?"

[Arnold Mesiser]

What do they think?

Isn't that common sense and respect.

I have seen many many posts about just going into a site...irregardless to ongoing exploration.IE if it is a public site them people should be able to push as they please.I will have to go back through lot of posts and find examples for you...I never thought to grab any.I can see it happening though as many people who are trained to dive in caves have had no other exposure to caves and the long held protocols developed in the long history of caving-then into cave diving as it developed.

I am not sure-does expedition mountain summiting follow a similar thing? IE a group sets lines and infrastructure to push a virgin summit..then a group comes along while they are doing something else and runs the summit..would that be frowned upon?

Regarding Pozo Azul- a HUGE portion of people I talked with thought it was okay(or did not know of the cavers protocols) for the EKPP to go ahead and push even though the CDG and Spanish groups had done all the work to access/site specific aids etc etc and were actively working the site.( I believe it "may" have been motivated by the fact that EKPP said a cave walled out in France(walled out to me means we are done) and the CDG came along later and pushed much father.This was suggested to be a tit for tat...of course I do not know all the details to know fully BUT EKPP did go in and push the EOL (Pozo Azul) without discussing it with the original group and the action was "justified" by the divers..

BTW the much further EOL is currently held by the CDG AFAIK

IMHO the protocol for approaching existing cave exploration has been in place for an awfully long time and is nothing new


The CDG forum has some posts on it as well as BUEX.ORG-I think DIRexplorers had some posts as well.

[rjack]

I am not sure-does expedition mountain summiting follow a similar thing? IE a group sets lines and infrastructure to push a virgin summit..then a group comes along while they are doing something else and runs the summit..would that be frowned upon?

Nobody is really setting up fixed ropes anymore, they are scooping each other's summits and lines (e.g. "blah blah ridge") alpine style. Ala the Peary vs. Cook North Pole race. This is all pretty minor in the grand geologic scheme of things. Kinda like pushing deeper into a hole in the ground.

I don't think wet or dry cavers should be scooping each others projects, but that's mostly a function of the respect I think human beings should afford one another moreso than any universal caver ethics.